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[Gem]

Hi, Guys


It starts not with the truth 'there is suffering', but with the truth when you actually recognise, "this is suffering". It is like this in the Buddhist way not only to know things according to the teachings, but to see it of yourself.

The four truths of Buddhist philosophy are

There is suffering
Suffering has a cause
Suffering can end
There is way to end suffering

The wider philosophy is like an elaboration of these 4 points. The principle is very simple. 'Craving' is the cause of suffering, and the cessation of craving ends it. It is simple in principle but highly nuanced in practice.

You will need a few things to understand this topic. You don't need energy flow or silence and bliss or anything of a fascinating sort. Some individuals might have that, others might not. Doesn't matter. This topic is not individualised; it's universal dhamma which is applicable to all human beings. This topic requires universal qualities such as conscious awareness, observation and attention, as well as virtues such as self-awareness and honesty.

It is customary to begin with a moral commitment which they call sila. You can google that if you like. It basically comes down to be truthful and don't hurt anything. The other moral tenets fall under that criteria.

You would be expected to 'take refuge' as well. Google that if you want. It ultimately means surrender to the truth of the enlightenment of yourself.

The experts will argue the above points, but they only googled it anyway. You can do that yourself. I'm only touching on the points. If you want to discuss them in more depth, please do. I'd love to. But I'm not interested in arguing about it.

Well that's where it starts, guys. Where you walk the talk.

Thanks for listening.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

@ Gem ... simple, direct, clear. Thanks!

***

[sky]

"Bhikkhus, it is through not realizing, through not penetrating the Four Noble Truths that this long course of birth and death has been passed through and undergone by me as well as by you. What are these four? They are the noble truth of dukkha; the noble truth of the origin of dukkha; the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha; and the noble truth of the way to the cessation of dukkha. But now, bhikkhus, that these have been realized and penetrated, cut off is the craving for existence, destroyed is that which leads to renewed becoming, and there is no fresh becoming."

DN 16

[sky]

If anyone is puzzled why they are called Noble Truths this Article from a Respected Buddhists Site explains....


https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/...-essay_20.html

[Miss Hepburn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-079YIasck

18 min Ted Talk - I loved this guy.

[jonesboy]

All Buddhist paths lead to silence and bliss.

All but one tradition that I am aware of teaches meditation and silence and bliss as a result.

Not trying to be argumentative but what you are saying is not true.

Also, nice way of saying any who disagree with me are experts who just google stuff but don’t directly know. I do so don’t listen to them ;)

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

All Buddhist paths lead to silence and bliss.

All but one tradition that I am aware of teaches meditation and silence and bliss as a result.

Not trying to be argumentative but what you are saying is not true.

Also, nice way of saying any who disagree with me are experts who just google stuff but don’t directly know. I do so don’t listen to them ;)

Just curious, which Tradition are you referring to?

[Phaelyn]

I'll add a few thoughts that come to me.

Originally Posted by Gem

when you actually recognize, "this is suffering"
to see it of yourself.
highly nuanced in practice.

An insight into a new way to be here now. At peace and without conflict within and without. A recognition of the negative (conflict creating) nature of the "manufactured personal self." An awareness or understanding of how to be here now liberated from a particular part of our content.

Originally Posted by Gem

You don't need energy flow or silence and bliss or anything of a fascinating sort. Some individuals might have that, others might not. Doesn't matter.

To me, people have very different karma and circumstances. One should never compare themselves to somebody else or judge someone else. We project what we are in that particular moment. It is what it is. People find a thing of value to them and tell others about it. What one person values another may not. What is a value to one won't be a value to another. Ultimately, we are the creators of how we experience whatever we are experiencing. We create a perception out of inner and outer realities. Up to us what we make out of what is given and present in any particular moment.

Originally Posted by Gem

universal qualities such as conscious awareness, observation and attention, as well as virtues such as self-awareness

surrender to the truth of the enlightenment of yourself.

People generally seek happiness and love. When they find conflict and un-happiness, that's when awareness kicks in as they seek ways to end the suffering. But even here, what is "suffering" to one may not be to another. Some are very happy with their egos. It takes a lot of time and lives for one to start to get into the more subtle parts of ourselves and to become aware of what is possible in a given moment as far as choosing a different perception and relationship with inner and outer content.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

All Buddhist paths lead to silence and bliss.

All but one tradition that I am aware of teaches meditation and silence and bliss as a result.

Not trying to be argumentative but what you are saying is not true.

Also, nice way of saying any who disagree with me are experts who just google stuff but don’t directly know. I do so don’t listen to them ;)

Ideas are well and good, a pleasurable place to spend one's time. They are also comfortable like an old blanket we love. They are us in a sense. Well worn paths we like to walk on and be with. But one can be aware of how ideas divide one from another, create conflict between me and them. It may be a brave thing to say, wait, if my ideas are creating conflict why don't I have none?

It's like a strong willed and highly opinionated atheist and christian sitting down to dinner. Is the conversation nice and kind and loving or combative? They both have strong ideas and beliefs and opinions. But these only create conflict if they "go there." If they choose to make ideas they carry a part of the content of the now. Our attention and awareness decides what is focused on in any given moment.

When we say, "this is true to me" we are creating something in the now that did not exist until we created it. The brain throws up thoughts all the time but up to us if we make them a part of now or not. The reality is now and what we are creating in it, creating out of what is inside and outside us, and to me, that is all spiritual paths. To make now love. Peace.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by Gem

This topic is not individualized; it's universal dhamma which is applicable to all human beings.

True, the peace of this moment is not my peace or your peace. It's the same peace for all. Liberation is the same. It is not mine or yours, it's the same in all. They are always present as a potential in all. This now can be experienced so many different ways depending on where our attention is, on what we are focusing on or not focusing on, but under all this variety is the same base or truth of this moment, the same underlying "this" that is free and clear. One just has to find it. But then it is not hidden. It is always present. It's just our attention is on other things.