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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #61  
Old Yesterday, 12:20 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
I am not suggesting that not understanding is your fault. This is difficult stuff requiring careful descriptions in writing which has not always been the case. If we could sit down together in friendly conversation, the outcome may well be different. I wish you well.


I am simply stating the case for why things don't add up . My only intention is to have a friendly chat but nothing of a real conversation transpires with non duality types .

No straightforward answers come forth and it ends up in someway where it is I that doesn't understand .

It's difficult to understand the workings of the premise when there are no answers coming forth to explain it .

It's a pattern that is rife in these instances .

None of my questions and concerns have been answered, only that I keep repeating my self ..

Well I keep on repeating myself because my concerns are not answered lol .

You have an idea of this world reality and this world reality along with yourself is illusory and dreamy and there is no truth relating to any of it by your own admission .

This is why it makes no sense, it's not the premise that I don't understand per se, it's simply that the premise that doesn't make sense by itself .

You are welcome as an illusory appearance of a peep to explain yourself and your theory or you can simply keep telling me that I am not seeing what you are pointing too .

Like said, most non dual conversations go like this and it's because when questioned peeps don't seem to like it .




x daz x
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  #62  
Old Yesterday, 03:50 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
I am simply stating the case for why things don't add up . My only intention is to have a friendly chat but nothing of a real conversation transpires with non duality types .

No straightforward answers come forth and it ends up in someway where it is I that doesn't understand .

It's difficult to understand the workings of the premise when there are no answers coming forth to explain it .

It's a pattern that is rife in these instances .

None of my questions and concerns have been answered, only that I keep repeating my self ..

Well I keep on repeating myself because my concerns are not answered lol .

You have an idea of this world reality and this world reality along with yourself is illusory and dreamy and there is no truth relating to any of it by your own admission .

This is why it makes no sense, it's not the premise that I don't understand per se, it's simply that the premise that doesn't make sense by itself .

You are welcome as an illusory appearance of a peep to explain yourself and your theory or you can simply keep telling me that I am not seeing what you are pointing too .

Like said, most non dual conversations go like this and it's because when questioned peeps don't seem to like it .x daz x

Its all been said already so would only be repeating. Tony Parsons (The Open Secret) has meetings recorded on line. Its the same stuff but maybe put in a way you can get. Be well.
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  #63  
Old Yesterday, 07:06 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Its all been said already so would only be repeating. Tony Parsons (The Open Secret) has meetings recorded on line. Its the same stuff but maybe put in a way you can get. Be well.

But Tony parsons isn't real either and doesn't speak the truth about non duality does he . He is just a dreamy character that speaks dreamy notions about reality .

There is nothing of any credibility behind the words is there by your own admission .

Passing me off to read material written by another is what other non dualists have done on this forum .

I was hoping to simply get some straight answers from you but no worries, I will leave it there . It's no big surprise to be honest, like said, it's a general pattern of behaviour I experience in these instances .

If no-one is here and nothing written is the truth or even points to the truth then it doesn't matter what is said . Pointers are useless when all they do is point to more dreamy material .

This is partly why none of it makes any sense and holds any weight as a foundation of reality .


x daz x
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  #64  
Old Yesterday, 10:46 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
I understand what you say, and even Self realisation doesn't actually reveal what you are because as many have discovered what ever is said about it, isn't it .

This is why peeps say what you are is all there is, because it covers every aspect of life and reality and there is no need to define that any further .

I am content with not putting stuff into words in this regard because the realisation itself puts to bed the search and the enquiry of what you are .

Of course, things get a little messy when peeps adopt there is no-one here to begin with that can search, but I keep asking if this line of thought is realised or not and I never get a straight forward answer .

The realisation itself doesn't reveal that what you are of the mind experience isn't real and one is dreaming .

This is just a mindful theory suggested and as we both know, there is no one here dreaming there is only a dream .. and this dream is concluded by no one and this no one doesn't have a comparison for what isn't a dream .

It's border line bonkers ..


x daz x

Of course the flip side is that whatever is said about it, it is. One can say that there really is no not real or false, everything is as it is and is real in the present moment. That though one may look closer and see the body as an illusion created by the properties of energy, so what, it is still the body and is a real illusion created by the properties of energy. So go ahead and experience it as a reality, because it is as real as anything else. If one cannot find the 'true' underlying nature of 'reality' then perhaps there is no one true base level of reality. Perhaps 'reality' is never ending shifting show of 'illusions', and if we look deeper into the illusions, we find deeper illusions, and so on. Then the illusions are reality, and perhaps we can stop desperately trying to strip away the illusions to get to reality, and just experience them. Because illusions though they may be, their beauty and all their other many qualia are real.

Anyway, you may get a kick out of this one, gotta stick with it to the ending, but honestly even for a cartoon the guy grates on ya. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KXidr0z1RY
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  #65  
Old Today, 11:17 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
But Tony parsons isn't real either and doesn't speak the truth about non duality does he . He is just a dreamy character that speaks dreamy notions about reality .

There is nothing of any credibility behind the words is there by your own admission .

Passing me off to read material written by another is what other non dualists have done on this forum .

I was hoping to simply get some straight answers from you but no worries, I will leave it there . It's no big surprise to be honest, like said, it's a general pattern of behaviour I experience in these instances .

If no-one is here and nothing written is the truth or even points to the truth then it doesn't matter what is said . Pointers are useless when all they do is point to more dreamy material .

This is partly why none of it makes any sense and holds any weight as a foundation of reality .


x daz x

I am sorry if you feel you have been passed off. That is not my intention so lets offer another invitation to the space I'm attempting to describe which is trancending the idea that truth/reality can be securely known. To illustrate this I offer The Parable of the Highwayman by S Kierkegaarde which was posted here some time ago under another thread which you may not have seen.

"Once upon a time in England a coach was held up by a highwayman. "Your purse sir" said the brigand which the passenger duly handed over. The highwayman dumped his hat, coat and wig in a ditch and rode off to the next town. A beggar dressed himself with them and made his way to the town where the passenger identified him as the robber and put him on trial.

The Highwayman was present and, with the courts permission, put on the wig, hat, and coat, went over to the passenger and said "Your purse sir". The passenger said "This is the man that robbed me" but the trouble was that he had already sworn that the beggar was the robber.

And so it is with all who pay attention to the 'what' and not the 'how'. They venture life and limb, would hang themselves and others, all on account of the wig".

There may be much hidden in ditches (and elsewhere:) that contradicts what is believed to be a discovered truth based on this or that so called evidence.

It seems that the position you take is that of the passenger in the story who believes in Truth/Reality and he wants to believe he knows the truth/reality of the situation, but is completely wrong. Following the message of the story, there may also be something hidden from the Highwayman which contradicts his version of the Reality/Truth of the situation. The space Kierkegaard is inviting to be occupied is where there may always be something hidden that contradicts what is believed to be the Truth/Reality, so the Truth/Reality cannot be securely known and best be trancended/no longer required, so that what one resonates with can be accepted but no longer has to be the truth/reality.

Relating this story to nonduality would mean that the manifestation including us and this nonduality story, is Oneness manifesting as an illusion of separation, and that there can be a resonance with this idea without it having to be Reality/Truth.

This may not help but is an indication that you are not simply being passed off.
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  #66  
Old Today, 11:25 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Of course the flip side is that whatever is said about it, it is. One can say that there really is no not real or false, everything is as it is and is real in the present moment. That though one may look closer and see the body as an illusion created by the properties of energy, so what, it is still the body and is a real illusion created by the properties of energy. So go ahead and experience it as a reality, because it is as real as anything else. If one cannot find the 'true' underlying nature of 'reality' then perhaps there is no one true base level of reality. Perhaps 'reality' is never ending shifting show of 'illusions', and if we look deeper into the illusions, we find deeper illusions, and so on. Then the illusions are reality, and perhaps we can stop desperately trying to strip away the illusions to get to reality, and just experience them. Because illusions though they may be, their beauty and all their other many qualia are real.

Anyway, you may get a kick out of this one, gotta stick with it to the ending, but honestly even for a cartoon the guy grates on ya. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KXidr0z1RY

In my eyes peeps that say it is as it is allows for there to be endless possibilities present and that's fine but we have to observe how these peeps actually behave .

It's like the spiritual teachers that say they are not self identified and then identify with their partner and get married lol .

So although there is the allowance present in regards to things being as they are, there cannot also be a stance either way of being self identified or not or that the world is real or not .

I agree that the body might seem illusory on one level but so what, you bang your head on a trees branch and it hurts, and we live from this aspect of experience don't we .

It's also fine to say however that the body comprises of light energy and only exists on a certain vibration but we are then changing the context and whether or not the body is made up of light matters not when we speak about the foundations of life for there has to be a real or illusory foundation present to allow a real or illusory experience .

The fundamental foundation is so important .. this is why to say no one is actually here as a foundation has a knock on effect to what is the reality (as it is) .


x daz x
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  #67  
Old Today, 11:46 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
I am sorry if you feel you have been passed off. That is not my intention so lets offer another invitation to the space I'm attempting to describe which is trancending the idea that truth/reality can be securely known. To illustrate this I offer The Parable of the Highwayman which has been posted here some time ago under another thread which you may not have seen.

"Once upon a time in England a coach was held up by a highwayman. "Your purse sir" said the brigand which the passenger duly handed over. The highwayman dumped his hat, coat and wig in a ditch and rode off to the next town. A beggar dressed himself with them and made his way to the town where the passenger identified him as the robber and put him on trial.

The Highwayman was present and, with the courts permission, put on the wig, hat, and coat, went over to the passenger and said "Your purse sir". The passenger said "This is the man that robbed me" but the trouble was that he had already sworn that the beggar was the robber.

And so it is with all who pay attention to the 'what' and not the 'how'. They venture life and limb, would hang themselves and others, all on account of the wig".

There may be much hidden in ditches (and elsewhere:) that contradicts what is believed to be a discovered truth based on this or that so called evidence".

It seems that the position you take is that of the passenger in the story who believes in Truth/Reality and he wants to believe he knows the truth/reality of the situation, but is completely wrong.
Following the message of the story, there may also be something hidden from the Highwayman which contradicts his version of the Reality/Truth of the situation. The space Kierkegaard is inviting you to occupy is where there may always be something hidden that contradicts what is believed to be the Truth/Reality, so the Truth/Reality cannot be securely known and best be trancended/no longer required, so that what one resonates with can be accepted but no longer has to be the truth/reality.

Relating this story to nonduality would mean that, in that story, there is only Oneness, so the manifestation including us and this nonduality story, can only be an illusion of separation, and that this can be resonated with (or not) without it having to be Reality/Truth.

This may not help but is an indication that you are not simply being passed off.

I believe that I am an individual that is not separate from what are fundamentally . The reality supports this experience .

What you are declaring is that the reality doesn't support individuality .

I see my understanding as self evident but you don't believe that what is self evident is real .

There is no realisation to suggest otherwise . There is like said no one here in your eyes that can transcend the dream .

There is no one here to realise that the world is a dream .

Again I am repeating myself because the foundation needs to be clear to begin with .

Thus far you speak about things but don't explain yourself in relation to them, that is why you say it's not necessary to have a comparison for the dream . This in itself is riddled with holes for reasons given that were never addressed .

In regards to the mistaken identity of the highwayman doesn't encompass the reality of there being a real person to begin with that can be misidentified or not .

We need to get the foundational reality clear to begin with don't we .. otherwise all there is are dreamy stories that are not actual at all . That's why I said pointers are useless if the pointers just point to more dream material .

You don't seem to understand this point I am making .


x daz x
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  #68  
Old Today, 12:17 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
I believe that I am an individual that is not separate from what are fundamentally . The reality supports this experience .

What you are declaring is that the reality doesn't support individuality .

I see my understanding as self evident but you don't believe that what is self evident is real .

There is no realisation to suggest otherwise . There is like said no one here in your eyes that can transcend the dream .

There is no one here to realise that the world is a dream .

Again I am repeating myself because the foundation needs to be clear to begin with .

Thus far you speak about things but don't explain yourself in relation to them, that is why you say it's not necessary to have a comparison for the dream . This in itself is riddled with holes for reasons given that were never addressed .

In regards to the mistaken identity of the highwayman doesn't encompass the reality of there being a real person to begin with that can be misidentified or not .

We need to get the foundational reality clear to begin with don't we .. otherwise all there is are dreamy stories that are not actual at all . That's why I said pointers are useless if the pointers just point to more dream material .

You don't seem to understand this point I am making .


x daz x

Yes, in the Nonduality story, what is being said is that there is only the dream of separation, so from the perspective of Nonduality that is what you call the foundational reality, but only in the nonduality story which is part of the dream. So you cannot securely get beyond the dream to know the truth/reality because that may always be hidden from you, or anyway only be more dream. The invitation, if it resonates, is to trancend that Truth/Reality can be securely known, then the problem disappears and one is free to go with whatever resonates in the dream without it having to be true/real. It maybe that this does not resonate with your character, and no reason why it should. There are other ways to go, such as practise which is said to go beyond the dream to realize/become truth, which may suit/resonate with you better.

In terms of total connection to Oneness it does'nt matter which way is taken because both and all are Oneness manifest, each the other and the One Love in Action, dreaming difference where there is no difference whatsoever.

Last edited by Iamit : Today at 01:13 PM.
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