Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Taoism

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 16-03-2019, 11:06 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,251
 
i suppose i coudl say something sage like where is tao if not here? So why pretend it is not? But I'm very upset with sages right now...

Really what I want to say is that any time I've ever let myself 'buy' an idea of the form 'if I act this way then I will get this thing' the next thing that has happened has been that the bullies came along and prevented me from acting in the prescribed way. Effectively preventing me from getting the thing.

Any more it seems better just to sit around and not do much of anything than to run around trying to find the great missing tao.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-05-2020, 07:45 PM
Starjumper7 Starjumper7 is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Andes Mountains Ecuador
Posts: 75
  Starjumper7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak

There are a couple of deeper aspects of this. As you have mentioned, it doesn't do much good for people without the proper experience to hear something that is beyond them. Of course, they will think they then understand it anyway and are then experts. It's because overly mental people confuse mental ideas with real experience ... because that's all they ahve to work with in life.

However, if you can allude to things that they can't relate to in a way that can get through to them, in a way that lets them know that there is something greater out there, then that can serve as useful motivation.

As it say, those who are without desires can see the mystery, but those with desires can only see the manifestations. However, there needs to be some desire instilled in a potential seeker to work to arrive at a desire-less state. This catch 22 situation is described as darkness within darkness.

A similar sentiment to the one quoted is the one which says: "The sage teaches without speaking." Some people wonder, how can this be?

Well, the best way for people to learn is my example. You can tell people to be good till you're blue in the face and it hardly does any good, but if you are a shining example, then they may see the benefit of imitation. It's kind of like telling people to conserve gasoline, they won't do a thing about it till you raise prices.

Another thing about teaching by example, without speaking, is that sages are nei kung masters, and nei kung is taught without speaking. So the sage teaches by leading an ethical life and teaching nei kung. However some of them delight in telling ghost stories.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-05-2020, 08:08 PM
Starjumper7 Starjumper7 is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Andes Mountains Ecuador
Posts: 75
  Starjumper7's Avatar
Why you aren't a Taoist.

it's because Taoism is NOT a philosophy. Anyone who thinks they can get 'it' from reading books is forever lost.

The idea that Taoism is a philosophy is a Western imperialistic definition, done by 'scholars' who like to separate what they like (mental drivel), from what they don't like (Taoist practices).

Taoist 'philosophy' is only truly learned by practicing one or more of the Taoist arts.

Last edited by Starjumper7 : 06-05-2020 at 08:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-05-2020, 02:04 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,251
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starjumper7
There are a couple of deeper aspects of this. As you have mentioned, it doesn't do much good for people without the proper experience to hear something that is beyond them. Of course, they will think they then understand it anyway and are then experts. It's because overly mental people confuse mental ideas with real experience ... because that's all they ahve to work with in life.

However, if you can allude to things that they can't relate to in a way that can get through to them, in a way that lets them know that there is something greater out there, then that can serve as useful motivation.

As it say, those who are without desires can see the mystery, but those with desires can only see the manifestations. However, there needs to be some desire instilled in a potential seeker to work to arrive at a desire-less state. This catch 22 situation is described as darkness within darkness.

A similar sentiment to the one quoted is the one which says: "The sage teaches without speaking." Some people wonder, how can this be?

Well, the best way for people to learn is my example. You can tell people to be good till you're blue in the face and it hardly does any good, but if you are a shining example, then they may see the benefit of imitation. It's kind of like telling people to conserve gasoline, they won't do a thing about it till you raise prices.

Another thing about teaching by example, without speaking, is that sages are nei kung masters, and nei kung is taught without speaking. So the sage teaches by leading an ethical life and teaching nei kung. However some of them delight in telling ghost stories.

yeah words get in the way when trying to teach about something like the Tao! Very confusing especially in the english language... much better to just sit still and if someone decides to want to watch they might get something out of it lol! That is better anyway, all sorts of control issues with words, the speaker kinda 'owns' the thoughts. So letting people alone alleviates that as well.

yeah my reading of the TTC has it talking about 'ideals' rather than 'virtue' the way it is commonly translated. But 'virtue' could be described as 'sticking to an ideal' so the two are related anyway.

Anywho when you see sorta what the Tao is like, you start making mental maps (because people always do that lol). That is kind of like, making an 'ideal' for what it should be like.

For a long time you might be using desire to head toward this ideal that you see. Which in part for Tao becomes a path toward lessening the very desires that keep you going along the path? So as always there is paradox involved. But Lao Tzu did say there comes a time, when you drop the thoughts about the ideal and just kinda step out into the mystery without it.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-05-2020, 04:43 AM
ant ant is offline
Deactivated Account
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,019
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
For a long time you might be using desire to head toward this ideal that you see. Which in part for Tao becomes a path toward lessening the very desires that keep you going along the path? So as always there is paradox involved. But Lao Tzu did say there comes a time, when you drop the thoughts about the ideal and just kinda step out into the mystery without it.

Like being on a hamster wheel,and stumbling along to the final chapter.

Trial and error,fine tuning and process.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 16-07-2020, 02:59 AM
Brian100 Brian100 is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 209
 
Life is hard enuf as it is. . . so why would you want to fill your head with this stuff?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 17-07-2020, 10:46 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,251
 
because the only way out of a runaway mind is to let it think about itself.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 18-07-2020, 09:04 PM
Brian100 Brian100 is offline
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 209
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
because the only way out of a runaway mind is to let it think about itself.


You mean a mind that hears too many useless thoughts? I have seen that before but I shut it down with the Jesus God.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums