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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #91  
Old 24-08-2020, 06:35 AM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
There was a person here a long time ago who did not believe anyone else existed. That's a philosophy some have. But then these people who believe this die eventually and we are still here existing without them so they did not create everything. So we know their philosophy is flawed... though they may not.



Well we are merged with this body, so in it, until it stops working and we leave it. So while a human, our point of reference is inside this form and body with it's endlessly "talking" mind. But then there is a way to be outside it in a sense.

Say we doubt the "dream." Mostly the mental data we are being fed as reality. We come to the conclusion that our entire existence is determined by our brains and senses. We know, can observe, there is actually no past that exists now. So why would it affect us? I think of some fight I had with my partner yesterday and get upset now. Why? It is not happening now at all. So there is some infallible evidence. I can experience what I am thinking about whether of not it is actually present, just a memory or idea needs to be present. What I am thinking about effects my experience. But then I have almost zero control over what I am thinking. So what a mess eh...... but wait, what if I have no relationship with whatever is in my head?... I am indifferent to it. Then what? Then it has no effect on me or on my experience.

The fact we can control the relationship we have with our own thoughts proves we are not thoughts, we are separate. Somebody get's told, "you're an idiot" and gets very mad and upset, another get's told that and ignores it. That's the power we have to create our own reality. We don't have much control over the dream, the talking in our heads, our dreams, our situations, our thoughts, but we can just be with it all without opinion, like being on a ride at Disneyland. We don't control what is present so much, but have total control if we pay it much attention or not, we can be indifferent to it.

But then we don't have to be indifferent to the good stuff, the taste of an apple, or chocolate, to love, a sunset, just be indifferent to the stuff that creates suffering or conflicts. Indifferent to anything that creates a need or want or expectation or desire. Because we want now and ourselves to be perfectly complete and ok as we are right now. To be here now without any conflict in total contentment and peace. It's doable. Just let go of whatever makes it otherwise.



Not me and I have no control over it's creation, so meh.... don't care what it is or presents. Put a puppy on a leash and a lot of conflict is created... let it run free in a field all is well....then even better is it is not my dog, not my puppy... somebody else's so it does not have to concern me at all.



And letting a Puppy run free can cause conflict.
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  #92  
Old 24-08-2020, 05:26 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
You're very convinced you're right ...

I wonder if everyone would agree with this:

Right now, in this now moment, we are experiencing sensory and mental data. The only difference between us is how indifferent we are to this data or how involved with it we are.
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  #93  
Old 24-08-2020, 05:52 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
And letting a Puppy run free can cause conflict.

The puppy was a metaphor for our unconsciously arising thought stream. The "running free" was the mid point...the final point was, then even better is it is not my dog, not my puppy... somebody else's so it does not have to concern me at all, or non-identification with these types of thoughts as self or from self.

Really this unconsciously arising thought stream does run free. We have no control over some aspects of it. But it seems to run on a kind of energy we provide to it.

Like this metaphor. Seeds naturally grow into plants. We have no control over this existing reality. But, we can provide water to the seeds or plant them somewhere there is no water, thus the potential linear phenomenon, seed to fully mature plant, never happens.

An unconscious thought forms, becomes conscious, we are indifferent to it, nothing phenomenal occurs, no effect to us. Nothing grows or flowers or comes to be from it. We have to provide energy and attention to these types of thoughts for them to produce an effect.

It's like where Buddha was asked if he was a god or a man....he was asked to state a belief or opinion about what he was, at a moment he had no interest in opinions or beliefs, he was asked to provide something he had no interest in and no relationship with.

If I am simply here, with no interest in my thought stream nor any interest in what it is saying, how can I answer some conceptual question? I can answer a experiential question though. But see the flow between conscious awareness and thought is of a different type.

Buddha, are you a god or man?

The flow here is to look in thought for the answer. Look in the conceptual, the imagination.

Buddha, are you a god or a man? ~ "I am awake"

"I am awake" is a description or expression of what I am experiencing, not what I am believing.

The flow is from experiencing to describing using mind, the conceptual. So the flow is not looking in the mind for an answer, instead one has the answer experiencially, then uses the mind to describe it.

Buddha, as one living non-conceptually or non-verbally, would not know directly what a man or a god was intellectually or as ideas. He perceived he was there and conscious, aware, so simply "What are you?" "I am awake." or look for yourself..... What am I as you perceive me without concepts or beliefs about me? See for yourself, experience for yourself what I am.
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  #94  
Old 03-10-2020, 08:26 PM
BlueElephant BlueElephant is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
The flow is from experiencing to describing using mind, the conceptual. So the flow is not looking in the mind for an answer, instead one has the answer experiencially, then uses the mind to describe it.

This is truly insightful !! Very good, clear way to put such a simple thing. Thank you Phaelyn.
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