what does "beyond good and evil'' mean in regard to non duality

[saurab]

Originally Posted by iamthat

The idea of good people becoming better is still part of the world of relative existence.

But the idea of goodness is not relative, even though there is lesser and greater goodness. Goodness is something absolute, and evil is not the opposite of goodness. It has no relationship to goodness.

Originally Posted by saurab

3. Knowing and trusting that God could not have created evil beings and so our deepest nature is goodness, and evil is a temporary phase in our life.

Okay. Thanks for that.

Now, in the above quote, you said that God could have not created Evil beings. Then, does it mean, Evil is not there in temporary phase too, as God not created Evil? If something is not created by God, then it means we can create something/thought which God does not create?

I don't know what you mean by the following,
" Accepting that evil on a lesser scale exists even in us".
Is there evil exists in us? There is desire for sure. But, Evil? What is meant by Evil in this sense? What kind of action we make is evil out of our desires? Like Being a Psycho with a Gun, and entering a Mall and shooting mindlessly - is "Evil"? If it is termed as Evil, Isn't it a pleasure/good for that Psychotic person - the other side of the coin?
See, I'm not implicating that action is Goodness. I'm not into that. My question is, why we term such action as Evil? Because of Killing and so? Can Death come to One without Knowledge of God? If God Knows and seeing everything, then it means God is allowing such psychotic action in this world. Then it means, GOD make ties with Evil?
It's just Time. The person died in that shooting, is their right time of Death. Only through that Psychotic Person, God Destroys the Body at right time. Like Krishna said to Arjuna, the time of Death of Bhishma,Gauravas,etc., (including the sons of Pandavas) has reached, and it's not Arjuna causing it. Arjuna never did Good/Evil by Peace/Killing.
This is the same thing taught by Bhishma in his death Bed to Yudhistra, when Yudhistra was suffering because of being a Cause for the Kuru-Massacre.

Death cannot reach one, until it is Time. If it is Time, one cannot escape it.

Just by Killing, one cannot say it is Evil. There is no Good/Bad action. Just Desire and Karmic rotations due to Attachments.

[saurab]

Originally Posted by O K Viswanath

Now, in the above quote, you said that God could have not created Evil beings. Then, does it mean, Evil is not there in temporary phase too, as God not created Evil? If something is not created by God, then it means we can create something/thought which God does not create?

In the beginning of creation (not the earth but the heavenly world) twenty lakh years ago, all beings were given a mind that was conditioned by God to be good. No one created by God was evil. All were good and their conditioning was good and all of us lived with God in peace. God Himself who is the crowning glory of Brahman (or Holy Spirit in christian terminology) was conditioned by Brahman to be good. Only Brahman / Holy Spirit was unconditioned absolutely. This is the only difference between God and Brahman (Holy Spirit). Otherwise They are the same.

When Moses asked God what His name was, God replied "I am That I am". The inner meaning of this was something like:

I am That : meant I am Brahman/Holy Spirit
and I am That I am : meant I am Brahman issuing forth from Brahman.

By the way, Brahman is another name for Holy Spirit. So Holy Spirit created God and God created other beings.

Yes, so I was saying that in the beginning there was no one evil. Then what was the origin of evil ? The Fall of the Angels (meaning us). One-third of the angels fell from grace with Satan because they said that we will be ruled by Satan and not God and it is they who are us. So all of us are fallen beings. How could we fall if we were created perfect ? Because God gave us free will, and we used it wrongly. That is how sin entered into the world.

Now comes the interesting part: Because in the beginning we were good and not at all evil, when one sinful thought entered into us, we accepted it because we were good only and so had very little discrimination so we were not cautious about evil entering into us. we did not even recognize it as evil. WE had no good/evil AUTOMATIC filters in our psyche. Tat is why we quickly started doing wrong things. Very gradually, little by little, we started developing discrimination because when we did evil, we were punished by the law of karma. so we started thinking that "this evil" leads to pain and suffering.

Now I would like to talk about "Aham Brahmasmi" or "I am Brahman". God and ONLY God can say that truthfully. WE can at best say "I am a part of Brahman or Holy Spirit".

Originally Posted by saurab

So all of us are fallen beings. How could we fall if we were created perfect ? Because God gave us free will, and we used it wrongly. That is how sin entered into the world.

Something contradicts. If God had created us as conditioned to be Good, then why free will? God wants us to choose "not to be Good"?

By the way, Satan is not Evil. He just does his Duty, like Yama/Death does. The Free will itself is the creation of Death, and so Satan does it duty of "opening up and spread" the Free will God gave.

If God was not aware/knowledgeable of the effects of giving "free will" (Evil might rise) instead of maintaining a condition to be Good, then He is not Real God. Puny God.

If God was so Compassionate and created us with a Condition of being Good, then he wouldn't have created "Apple of Eden" in a cornor of the Garden. He would have destroyed it. But, he didn't did so. He didn't killed Satan too. So, Either every action is "Will of God" (including Evil), or Puny God didn't aware of the outcome of Free will and let his Children suffer.

Edit -
Also, If God can provide "Free will", then he can buyback the "free will" even now too (like Shares are issued and bought back in markets). But, God didn't did it. Then, doesn't it mean, Either everything is "God's Play" or Puny God is not Compassionate and let us under hands of Satan? Will a Mother be as such, when a Snake come near to a Child and take lordship over the child?

[Ewwerrin]

I simply don't know what nondual is. Maybe I don't know it YET. Maybe I will never know. Maybe it will be the greatest discovery ever, maybe not. Maybe I know it unconsciously. I don't know.

Same with God. It seems to me like discovering God is the greatest thing that can possibly be imagined, by me, happening to humanity.

It feels to me like God falls under the category of faith and not yet knowledge. It feels to me like a goal rather than knowledge. But on that path, many knowledge evolves. Has done so and still is doing so.

I imagine opening the news and watching breaking news "We have found God." That seems like it would be the biggest event ever. I can hardly imagine anything greater than that.

But so far, I simply cannot know. Or I'll just say, I simply don't know. On that journey I discover that I often don't know allot. I often discover after the fact that "I had known even less than I thought I knew."

[Aupmanyav]

Originally Posted by saurab

1. Accepting that evil on a lesser scale exists even in us, and yet we may not be very unkind to ourselves. So, similarly we can be kind to others as well for their greater evil.
2. Understanding how evil grows in a person. It may start with an evil thought and then grow exponentially because the person believed that evil thought and did not reject it or did not understand it.

Our deepest nature is selfishness. Family and society grooms us not to be selfish.
Whether we have some evilness in us in a smaller or greater measure, it should always be deprecated, and so too in others. If we make compromises, then as you said, evil will increase exponentially. :)

[Aupmanyav]

Originally Posted by saurab

How do you know that non duality implies that there are no opposites ? Just from the meaning of the word nonduality or do you have a non verbal understanding of it ?

Non-duality does not exist in the observed/perceived world. In 'Advaita', we accept two realities: 1. Pragmatic Reality: one of the observed world (Vyavaharika Statya), and 2. Parmarthika Satya: Absolute reality. The absolute reality can only be understood. It is the reality of the 'Quantum world'.

Adi Sankara postulated a third also: Pratibhasika Satya. But that is academic - 'reality based on imagination alone'. In my personal opinion (I am a strong atheist Hindu), God and soul belong to Pratibhasika Satya. :)

Originally Posted by saurab

Goodness is something absolute, ..

IMHO, there are no absolutes. What is good or what is evil depend on the society.

[saurab]

Originally Posted by Aupmanyav

IMHO, there are no absolutes. What is good or what is evil depend on the society.

But the society can also be corrupt.

[Aupmanyav]

Originally Posted by saurab

By the way, Brahman is another name for Holy Spirit. So Holy Spirit created God and God created other beings.

Now I would like to talk about "Aham Brahmasmi" or "I am Brahman". God and ONLY God can say that truthfully. WE can at best say "I am a part of Brahman or Holy Spirit".

That is your opinion, not mine.

Brahman is not God. Brahman is the stuff that exists. The absolute reality is that the whole universe is Brahman only. Adi Sankara said, 'Brahma satyam, Jagan-mithya..' (Brahman (alone) is the truth, the observed universe is an illusion). Seeing parts is duality (Dvaita) and illusion. Brahman is not divisible.

Originally Posted by saurab

But the society can also be corrupt.

Honesty and corruption are parts of society. We in India are blessed with quite a corrupt society. Depends on our leaders where they take us. We have many ten percenters. That is why people like Modi and Yogi are important.

[saurab]

Originally Posted by O K Viswanath

Something contradicts. If God had created us as conditioned to be Good, then why free will? God wants us to choose "not to be Good"?

free will implies not choosing not to be good, but choosing good over evil. In the beginning there was subtle evil that most would call good. And that is why the created beings were all good. But now that is not the case. hence the need for lesser discrimination now. Think about why I said "lesser discrimination now".....