Who is the ' Us and Our ' ?

[BigJohn]

From the International Version (NIV) Bible, Genesis 3: 22 reads:

And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."


When I read this verse, what stand out to me is the expression Lord God which in Hebrew is transliterated as Yahweh Elohim. When translating the two words that get transliterated as Yahweh Elohim, the translators should have introduced sharewords for these words because in English there is no English equivalency.

To me, the first 'creation' account uses Elohim and appears to be written from an Elohist point of view. Whereas the second 'creation account uses Yahweh which is from a Yahwist point of view. I suspect when both accounts were 'merged' together, such expressions as LORD God and God LORD were woven in to make the two separate 'creation' accounts appear as one account.

In a previous post, I had mentioned what the Apostle Paul/Saint Paul wrote on this matter dealing with 'us' and the 'us' in these accounts in referring to Jesus as the Firstborn of creation and 'God'.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

They were written by two distinct groups and when compiled to become Genesis, it appears the 'story' even got tweaked.

It's pretty amazing actually when you look at the dates in which historians say the different books in the bible were written. Like Genesis was written between 1445-1405 BC, Judges in 1043 BC...that's 400 years later. Isaiah was written between 700-681 BC, that's around 700 years after Genesis was written. The Gospel of Luke: AD 60-61, that's over 1500 years after Genesis was written.

Imagine writing a chapter in a book, today in 2020....and having someone add a chapter to your book in the year 3520......

What will be happening in the year 3520? Well the earths population doubles around every 65 years... so today the worlds population is around 7.8 billion... in 3520 it will be around 67,108,864 billion.... yea that's going to be a different world! Or it would be like you adding a chapter to a book written in the year 520 AD...

The entire earths human population around the time genesis was written, around 38 million. Which is a little less than the current population of California.

Think of it this way.... take every human being off this planet except for those living in California....then use only the people living in California right now to populate this entire planet. That's how many people were around when genesis was written...and then at that time there was no way to travel long distances or to communicate with anybody not standing directly in front of you... all "books" had to be personally written by someone's hand from beginning to end...

Oh you want a copy of this book?, let me write it out for you!

[sky]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

It's pretty amazing actually when you look at the dates in which historians say the different books in the bible were written. Like Genesis was written between 1445-1405 BC, Judges in 1043 BC...that's 400 years later. Isaiah was written between 700-681 BC, that's around 700 years after Genesis was written. The Gospel of Luke: AD 60-61, that's over 1500 years after Genesis was written.

Imagine writing a chapter in a book, today in 2020....and having someone add a chapter to your book in the year 3520......

What will be happening in the year 3520? Well the earths population doubles around every 65 years... so today the worlds population is around 7.8 billion... in 3520 it will be around 67,108,864 billion.... yea that's going to be a different world! Or it would be like you adding a chapter to a book written in the year 520 AD...

The entire earths human population around the time genesis was written, around 38 million. Which is a little less than the current population of California.

Think of it this way.... take every human being off this planet except for those living in California....then use only the people living in California right now to populate this entire planet. That's how many people were around when genesis was written...and then at that time there was no way to travel long distances or to communicate with anybody not standing directly in front of you... all "books" had to be personally written by someone's hand from beginning to end...

Oh you want a copy of this book?, let me write it out for you!

' It's pretty amazing actually when you look at the dates in which historians say the different books in the bible were written. '


I think it's ' pretty amazing ' how some actually believe every word written in the Scriptures. That takes some ' Faith '....

[Miss Hepburn]

Gosh, here's a thread on the Elohim:

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...ghlight=elohim


And another on the Elohim:

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...ghlight=elohim

[sky]

Seen through the eyes of the last Christian Taoists.


In the beginning was the natural constant, the true stillness of the Origin, and the primordial void of the Most High. Then the spirit of the void emerged as the Most High Lord, moving in mysterious ways to enlighten the holy ones. He is Joshua, my True Lord of the Void, who embodies the three subtle and wondrous bodies, and who was condemned to the cross so that the people of the four directions could be saved.

The Most High Lord created the twin forces of yin and yang, with the lighter vapors of yang rising to form heaven and the sun, and the heavier vapors of yin sinking to form Earth and the moon. These two forces then gave birth to chi (life breath, or sustaining energy flow), which forms part of every living thing.


Part of ' The Stone Sutra '


https://thejesusquestion.org/2011/08...e-stone-sutra/



Notice the idea of ' The Trinity '...

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Gosh, here's a thread on the Elohim:

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...ghlight=elohim


And another on the Elohim:

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...ghlight=elohim

You will find Elohim and Yahweh are mentioned in numerous threads.

Hard to believe Elohim is mentioned in the first scripture of the Bible.......
It makes you wonder, dosn't it?

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by sky123

I think it's ' pretty amazing ' how some actually believe every word written in the Scriptures.

That happens in pretty much every religion and belief system doesn't it? Many Hindu's believe their many Gods exist and are real. Some people believe Chakra's exist and there is no real proof. Some Tantric Buddhist's believe in spiritual benefits in sex rituals, other Buddhist's believe in rainbow bodes flying though the sky, the pure lands existing etc. Some believe other normal human beings are enlightened or "masters." Somehow higher than somebody else without any real proof. Some believe Tai Chi, moving the body very slowly in a certain elaborate pattern, makes one more spiritual. Some believe their method of meditation, or saying certain words, mantras, makes them more spiritual.

I myself believe the Astral (non-physical) World exists. That we go there when the body stops working. That we are in soul groups, and will meet up with these friends of ours when we go there, and on and on. I have tons of beliefs I believe and cannot prove. If a belief makes us happier, less fearful, does not harm others, or lead to harming others, I don't see anything wrong with it.

I read a supposedly non-fiction book about fairies once, mythical beings who work with nature, and then I took a walk in nature in the boonies...I did not see any fairies, but I went though some high bushes and came into this tiny small clearing...it was untouched by human hands.... but the order and beauty there was unreal. The wild flowers or many shades and colors, all blooming, the trees, the vines, the grass, even the rocks.... everything seemed to be so beautifully placed and so perfect and heathy and full of life....that little clearing looked like a fairy tale. I tangibly felt different there. I felt like some other non-seen being or beings were there.

But then as I don't believe in "fairies" I did not assume fairies were working or there, however, I do believe we, in non-physical form, in the "astral world" can work with earth and with nature.... so I believe someone, like us, just in the energy realm and living and working there, was involved in the making of that little clearing... it was just too perfect and beautiful to have come into being randomly in my view and based on my beliefs. But yea I could be completely wrong about everything I believe. It doesn't really matter if I am wrong or right as long as my beliefs are not harmful to myself or others in some way.

Belief's can make our lives better...look at how many adults teach their kids about Santa. Why does this ritual, teaching this belief to children, continue to this day? In this case the adults actually know something is not true but chose to teach it to others as reality anyway!

Belief in angels is a wonderful belief too, but in my view, "angels" are just us, more highly evolved. I myself don't believe anyone who was at an "angel" level, a level where we are helping others in the astral world or on earth, could "fall" or be involved in various "wars" in the astral realm with dragons... but I don't know what's true or real. Perhaps my body will stop working, I will go to the astral realm, and I will be told 200 male angels went to earth to mate with human females....anything is possible eh.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by sky123

Seen through the eyes of the last Christian Taoists.

my True Lord of the Void, who embodies the three subtle and wondrous bodies,

Notice the idea of ' The Trinity '...

There are so many people and groups who make hybrid belief systems. I do it myself. I have taken many college classes in Comparative Religion and Philosophy. I myself see no real difference between what Buddha taught or discovered and what Jesus did. But then obviously people who do this, are not accepting everything the "official" religion dogma states as fact. Most religions have aspects within them that state in some way "they" are the only (or best or true)way to truth or god, to salvation or enlightenment or whatever goal they subscribe to. People who form hybrid beliefs, see many ways to the same goals or place. For example, "love" is not really owned by one particular religion... all can love, give it, be it, project it. Attune themselves with it.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

That happens in pretty much every religion and belief system doesn't it? Many Hindu's believe their many Gods exist and are real. Some people believe Chakra's exist and there is no real proof. Some Tantric Buddhist's believe in spiritual benefits in sex rituals, other Buddhist's believe in rainbow bodes flying though the sky, the pure lands existing etc. Some believe other normal human beings are enlightened or "masters." Somehow higher than somebody else without any real proof. Some believe Tai Chi, moving the body very slowly in a certain elaborate pattern, makes one more spiritual. Some believe their method of meditation, or saying certain words, mantras, makes them more spiritual.

I myself believe the Astral (non-physical) World exists. That we go there when the body stops working. That we are in soul groups, and will meet up with these friends of ours when we go there, and on and on. I have tons of beliefs I believe and cannot prove. If a belief makes us happier, less fearful, does not harm others, or lead to harming others, I don't see anything wrong with it.

I read a supposedly non-fiction book about fairies once, mythical beings who work with nature, and then I took a walk in nature in the boonies...I did not see any fairies, but I went though some high bushes and came into this tiny small clearing...it was untouched by human hands.... but the order and beauty there was unreal. The wild flowers or many shades and colors, all blooming, the trees, the vines, the grass, even the rocks.... everything seemed to be so beautifully placed and so perfect and heathy and full of life....that little clearing looked like a fairy tale. I tangibly felt different there. I felt like some other non-seen being or beings were there.

But then as I don't believe in "fairies" I did not assume fairies were working or there, however, I do believe we, in non-physical form, in the "astral world" can work with earth and with nature.... so I believe someone, like us, just in the energy realm and living and working there, was involved in the making of that little clearing... it was just too perfect and beautiful to have come into being randomly in my view and based on my beliefs. But yea I could be completely wrong about everything I believe. It doesn't really matter if I am wrong or right as long as my beliefs are not harmful to myself or others in some way.

Belief's can make our lives better...look at how many adults teach their kids about Santa. Why does this ritual, teaching this belief to children, continue to this day? In this case the adults actually know something is not true but chose to teach it to others as reality anyway!

Belief in angels is a wonderful belief too, but in my view, "angels" are just us, more highly evolved. I myself don't believe anyone who was at an "angel" level, a level where we are helping others in the astral world or on earth, could "fall" or be involved in various "wars" in the astral realm with dragons... but I don't know what's true or real. Perhaps my body will stop working, I will go to the astral realm, and I will be told 200 male angels went to earth to mate with human females....anything is possible eh.

Yes it does happen in most ' Belief Systems ' and some find ' Beliefs ' helpful 'because they can't or maybe don't want to see the harsh realities of life.

To each their own.....

[sky]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

There are so many people and groups who make hybrid belief systems. I do it myself. I have taken many college classes in Comparative Religion and Philosophy. I myself see no real difference between what Buddha taught or discovered and what Jesus did. But then obviously people who do this, are not accepting everything the "official" religion dogma states as fact. Most religions have aspects within them that state in some way "they" are the only (or best or true)way to truth or god, to salvation or enlightenment or whatever goal they subscribe to. People who form hybrid beliefs, see many ways to the same goals or place. For example, "love" is not really owned by one particular religion... all can love, give it, be it, project it. Attune themselves with it.

Agree.........