What is non duality?

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by MAYA EL

however there's not a single human being on the face of the planet that can have the identical same experience as the next everybody takes life differently

There are practical difficulties in what you expect like

1. That consciousness can not be put in limits of words . Words fall short to describe it . So everyone may have different shot at it and may use different words to convey it . So same words may not be available from any 2 different persons on this globe.
2. Observable facts posits shorter time and space limits whereas spiritual laws have a larger time and space to understand cause /effect and a very difficult to infer co-relations . So at times there may really be seeker prejudices / mistakes in understanding the experiences . And its very difficult to segregate one's prejudices / mistakes also from their account of descriptions . But that simply does not negate the experience as such.
3. Life goes by the documented experiences of well meaning, sane ,hardworking , intelligent people . Only when u believe spiritual experiences of great people in history like what u believe in scientific laws , u can have faith in spiritual laws .
4. Like many things in life like taste, aroma, sensation ,beauty etc no one bothers to standardize the lingo and insist on giving numbers to it . All that matters is experience (taste of the pudding is in eating ) . So for spiritual experiences also one must not be overly concerned with observable standard descriptions / numerical expressions .

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I don't need an authoritative observable fact for much of anything
to believe what someone tells me they exp'd happened...esp when it coincides with my experiences.

PS Maya is there for anyone to exp..sit ...Be still.

There will never be objective proof of the Ineffable as it defies being limited to an object that can be sliced, diced, probed and measured in a way that can be independently repeated and unambiguously shared with others. Because of this it defies intellectual understanding and precise linguistic expression. So we use analogy and metaphor to relate these subjective experiences.

If someone tells me they had an experience of reality being like a dream I understand exactly where they are coming from. If they also tell me within that experience was a "sense" of omnipresence I understand that too.

I would say if one can cease movements of mind to the extent possible (sit and be still) one has a chance of getting a glimpse through cracks in the veil of Maya.

More for the fire……:) Perhaps we were ‘cursed’ with duality so that we could experience the essence of God ? I define the essence of God as love. Gen. 2:18….”The Lord God said, “it is not good for man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” “”. That ‘helper’ provided man an object for love. Love does not exist without both one who loves and one who is loved. Does that scripture depict the birth of love ? It seems to me that we must have a concrete experience of love before we can have any ethereal experience of love(non duality)…….

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by Molearner

More for the fire……:) Perhaps we were ‘cursed’ with duality so that we could experience the essence of God ? I define the essence of God as love

Yes, excellent, the heart of non-duality is, paradoxically, relationship. For a few years I was always asking questions about a phrase of Thomas Merton (him again! ) that he used in a letter to Aldous Huxley. Huxley was advocating the use of drugs to induce mystical experience and Merton spoke of true mystical experience as necessarily being the "contact of two liberties."

Love, as I see it, must always be the contact of two liberties.

Now I reflect..... why just "two"? As a non-theist (although I find more and more that the edges blur between theism and non-theism, especially when opening the mind/heart to the mystical traditions) why not the contact of infinite liberties?

Radical freedom. The realisation of non-duality within duality.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Molearner

More for the fire……:) Perhaps we were ‘cursed’ with duality so that we could experience the essence of God ? I define the essence of God as love. Gen. 2:18….
”The Lord God said, “it is not good for man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” “”.
That ‘helper’ provided man an object for love. Love does not exist without both one who loves and one who is loved. Does that scripture depict the birth of love ?
It seems to me that we must have a concrete experience of love before we can have any ethereal experience of love(non duality)…….

You have a poet's heart.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

...I would say if one can cease movements of mind to the extent possible (sit and be still)
one has a chance of getting a glimpse through cracks in the veil of Maya.

You say glimpse...I say they can get their socks blown off.

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

Radical freedom. The realisation of non-duality within duality.

Yes, I loved the observation of Merton…….and your suggestion of radical freedom……attaining that level implies genuine growth
….in a way, real freedom points to freedom from choices rather than freedom of choices…..perhaps the “peace that passes the all understanding?”

[Ewwerrin]

Maybe to experience non duality within duality, we need a middle non-man, or transcendental. If duality/nonduality is like the 3 and 6, then the middle man would be the ever spiraling ever consistent 9. That causes the positional or "charge" shift of 3 and 6. By the consistently transcendant nature of the 9. As it can also unveil the existence of its supreme nature, by penetrating the physical also through its source duality. But since the source duality, 3 and 6, is based on the 9 and its consistency, and eternal inability to experience itself. Yet, strangely, the consciousness that is based on 3 and 6, duality, self and other, ever fluctuating, also in physical. BUT... A big gateway or portal or hope is made possible by the fact that the physical nature is capable, due to self crossing nature of physical reality, and its uniquely more expanded in resolution/speficity nature of being more detailed in physical manifestational being of dual expressions, it is capable thus... Through that self crossing nature, that when it crosses itself, it opens a portal there at the center of its being, it opens a portal for 9, the unexperiencable absolute beingness, to reveal its existence through the crossing of the physical reality with itself.

So it is the ability to meet the self of the physical, with the self of the physical, to truely touch another aspect of your own physical being, and through that crossing, there is the ability to touch the opening/revelation of the existence of 9, but to say if or how it can be experienced then through physical nature? Well, the only thing that can touch the 9 is the physicality of creation. The manifestational aspect of creation, is the only thing that can truely reveal the 9, yet it wont be physical, but it will come from the center of all things physical. Where physical crosses itself.

It's like walking in circles, in a campfire, and you constantly reach a point, where you have already been, but if you be there in the exact same way, as you have been there before, it is through that manifestation, that the 9 can be ALLOWED to be revealed as a something transcendental. That is at the source of all things that exists, also of consciousness, as the absolute being without becoming. That for some reason, non-physical consciousness cannot experience it, but it can revolve around it, and thus incidentally create physical extensions in order to affirm/validate/reveal/unveil the existence of the absolute.

However, the consciousness and its dual self reflective nature of self and other cannot do this, without first extending into the physical, which would make that link from there possible, with the absolute true core self/being, which is untouchable to the non-physical source/duality consciousness.

As consciousness is like pure positive source energy, perfect, angelic, giver and receiver of all things. But it is based on an existence, which transcends even the consciousness. And therefor perhaps the consciousness naturally extends into the physical, in order to allow for the natural alignment to take place, that is necessery for the penetration of its own physicality, by the absolute omni transcending beingness.

And so it cannot be possible to become aware of God Absolute, without the physicality. And even the awareness of the absolute wont be the absolute, but it will be the penetration of the physical nature, by the absolute, that the consciousness can become aware of. And so the physical extension of the consciousness is like an intermediary between its awareness and God Absolute.

But there has to be absolute alignment for that absolute realisation to be experienced. And the alignment is all about self reference. And the portal to the absolute is all about self reference. And the self reference is also what allows for more alignment. And thus way more possibility and probability for the experience of and allowing of the penetration of the absolute through the transcendental nature of the self reference of the physical extension of the non-physical source consciousness.

Now, we are conscious. Also of the physical reality. But the physical reality we are conscious of, is not in alignment with the absolute like the soul is. AND THAT IS THE EXACT PERFECT REASON why through that chaos, and unbalance, and mis alignment and wobble, there is a natural INEVITABILITY of self reference, that constantly happens in the physical reality, that makes God Realisation to the Source Consciousness possible. Or the crossing of the physical extension of the soul/consciousness, WITH ITSELF, at which point of self crossing, the absolute being, becomes unveiled or revealed.

Because it seems like to my logic there HAS TO BE a crossing of the physical with itself, ALL OF THE TIME and MANY TIMES ALL OF THE TIME. But it cannot be experienced, without referring the physical TO THE SELF. Of perhaps a PREVIOUS self.

So a mirror would be required to experience the penetration of the physical. Or some sort of self referencing ritual. By which the physical extension/being/expression/manifestation can meet the crossing of itself, with another physical being that itself has been. Or that itself WILL be. It can go both ways. As long as the crossing is understood to be inevitable, but somewhere on that trajectory of its physical being and by its very physical nature of being, there is a crossing of itself, that is being penetrated by the absolute.

So the campfire analogy is the best one I can find to make sense of it. Where the one who circles it, can become aware of the one who just been there, without actually being it, and in that awareness, of its previous self that had just been there, and the journey that was required to go from that same here and now perspective to this here and now perspective, is caused by the absolute being, omni transcendental. And so it is somewhere in the journey!

It is not then and now... It is the journey in between the previous moment and the new here and now moment, that contains the omni transcendant absolute being.

But obviously, gotta know that no moment is the same, and that consciousness makes change possible, but what makes consciousness possible cannot be known without the "out of alignment" and "deviant" nature of physical reality.

Because if consciousness refers to the self, it will just create a physical reality. But if consciousness refers to the self, THROUGH the physical nature of the physical self, referring to a different physical nature of its own self, then absolute God Consciousness can be realised. Also to the Source/Soul/Non-Physical Consciousness. Through its own physical extension and the crossing nature of it, with itself.

For that thing is not conscious, but when we become conscious of it, then all of infinite existence can become instantly known experienced and become aware of. And that means that the very creation of physical reality is for the purpose of making the impossible, possible. To Create God Consciousness. Even tho, the one that is at the true source of it all, is not of consciousness, but when we become conscious of it, then we are instantly God Consciousness. For it requires just one consciousness, one point of view, to perceive the absolute being, to transcend all of existence into an ultimate awakening that is like all is one and one is all. But fully consciously known and felt and experienced, physical and non-physical on all levels and dimensions of being and existence.

[Ewwerrin]

The problem with the campfire analogy is that it requires memory, and we can only become aware of the mover as the consciousness. But there is something in the PHYSICAL nature and its deviance of consciousness that allows the consciousness to transcend its own dual self reflective nature, and become aware of the ultimate source beingness without becoming.

It is not that physical nature is non-sentient, because it is made by the very consciousness and its self reflective nature of energy motional being and becoming. But the physical nature, extension, has a quality to it, that makes it possible for the consciousness that we are, to become aware of the true non-sentience and non-sentient of the absolute being without becoming. And the awareness of that would make it instantly conscious and reflect the perfect consciousness, transcendental consciousness, of omnipetence, all knowingness, and it would instantly make all non-sentient things come to life. instantly. FAAAAR more real than dreams or even physical reality. it would transcend all dreams / thoughts that have ever been thought and even all physical realities and existences and universes and dimensions of creation and existence.

IT would literally be an awakening of the absolute being without becoming, to its own being, through the awareness and self reflective nature of the soul from the source of the absolute. And it would suck and unify all things into harmonic convergence, on all levels of existence, in perfect harmony and alignment with the absolute existence becoming aware for the first ever, of its own absolute beingness. That implies an entire new existence and creation.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

You say glimpse...I say they can get their socks blown off.

I would say just a glimpse is mind-blowing.

I'm reminded of the part in the Bhagavad Gita where Krishna reveals His true nature to Arjuna and terrified he asks "Who are you?". Krishna answers "I am become Death (Time), the destroyer of worlds...".