It isn't ONE Self it is Self that is all there is ..

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

H
I would say it's always good to put your truths and your voice out there. Many may not get it or may not resonate with it, because they are at a different place on their path. If they mock you or are unkind, I'm so sorry...that is unfortunate and of course you deserve better...but that says more about where they are than anything else.


7L

Absolutely Panda .

It's never been about peeps agreeing with me or resonating with me . It's nice at times for peeps to be on the same page, but something I maintain as I can testify on a few other's behalf is that is what they think too .

We are all willing to talk in depth about our reasons for saying what we do and will counter what is said it return .

That's what conversing is all about .

When things take an ugly turn it's normally as Mike pointed out when beliefs held to be true are questioned it rubs some up the wrong way and they become unkind or simply play the runaround game ..

There really is no need, unless there is ..

What peeps perhaps don't realise or care to register is that by doing what they are doing kinda negates what their saying at times .


x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Absolutely Panda .

It's never been about peeps agreeing with me or resonating with me . It's nice at times for peeps to be on the same page, but something I maintain as I can testify on a few other's behalf is that is what they think too .

We are all willing to talk in depth about our reasons for saying what we do and will counter what is said it return .

That's what conversing is all about .

When things take an ugly turn it's normally as Mike pointed out when beliefs held to be true are questioned it rubs some up the wrong way and they become unkind or simply play the runaround game ..

There really is no need, unless there is ..

What peeps perhaps don't realise or care to register is that by doing what they are doing kinda negates what their saying at times .


x daz x

It's not that big of a deal. It doesn't even matter who is right and who is wrong, because in the end whatever is just is, regardless what we believe.

It isn't worth getting worked up over. Just sit back and enjoy the play, including your part in it. Maybe even get a good chuckle out of it. That's my point. "Realize" what side of the equation you're really on and it won't bother you. Isn't that what all this is really about?

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I guess all those rumours flying around about you having been abducted by aliens was just wishful thinking. Ah well.

Hey GS. LOL ...well, thus far, yes.

We're not good about accepting reality, which is why someone came up with the Precipice Principle. We allow ourselves to be pushed until we're on the edge of the precipice until the choice becomes to either turn ourselves around or allow ourselves to be pushed off the edge.

We're definitely in one of the less desirable timelines, one where the Nazis didn't win and yet we still find our way back to fascism and authoritarianism, through fear, prejudice, contempt, and apathy.

It seems humanity leans that way by default when operating from fear and loathing, until we've learnt to cope with those things from the heart centre in authentic love for self & others.

Nietzche called it "Amor Fati" or 'Love of Fate', which meant embracing things as they are and not trying to escape them. The emptiness is fine for a while, but there comes a time when you aren't aware of having gone long past lunchtime.

His philosophy was so vile, but he did have a handle on human depravity, didn't he? I never really resonated with that sentiment. I think it's because I resonate with the struggle against the will and might of the powerful and oppressive ("fate") if it is not right-aligned with authentic love. Acceptance is not something willingly done if coerced via "will" and "might"...it's more just an acknowledgment of misalignment and injustice which is still more the norm than the exception.

However, I also have not resonated much with the emptiness, nor with connecting to it via the intellect. It's driven many a soul stark raving mad...but IMO it's also a rather abstract task, as it seems we're only wired to deeply connect to Oneness through our heart centre.

It's the reason there isn't One Self but a myriad of perceptually individuated selfs, it's the difference between an eternally colour-shifting Universe and one that's eternally beige.

Agreed..perhaps it's more myriad individuated selves and colours, versus something else we're not really able to perceive intellectully at all...so whatever Oneness may be, it seems vague, amorphous, and indistinct to us.

But then, if you were fully human in this moment? Perhaps there would be moments of elation as you realised you'd arrived but then when you get there, there isn't there any more so the novelty wears off quickly. What's next? If there is a there then there's always somewhere else to go.

Thank you

'Solid' is not all it's cracked up to be anyway, and sometimes it can be whisked away so easily that it makes you wonder what made it solid in the first place.

Well said...there is always somewhere else to go, and solidity is just an illusion. The reality is the quantum superposition, entanglement, and infinite probabilities in the moment as we move about the wave function of this entire multiverse, and that's just the 0.01%, so to speak. What's going on in spirit is the other 99.99% of our experience.

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey

Hey there

Yes, this is why it make sense to make distinctions about personalisation and beyond that . What I see peeps doing at times is cross dressing them .

Yes...it makes some sense to my mind to speak of the truths of Oneness or non-duality in the only way we honestly can do, which is to speak of insights on Oneness received via illumination in the heart centre. And a primary way to speak of heart centre truths is to speak of Oneness as we experience it -- in relationship to our heart centres.

It may introduce paradox, i.e., the paradox of speaking of illumination on non-duality from duality, but paradox is at the heart centre of all deep truth

Some speak about non conceptual realisations that point to the non conceptual .

But if we are to be picky then that's simply not true .

There is either beyond mindful concepts or there is isn't .

Well...TBH it is impossible, right? The mystics have always said, let's just speak of Oneness from our own heart centre and in that place, we can begin to apprehend wordless truths and illuminations. Thus we can say that the awakened heart centre is a singularity. It is both dual and non-dual. That is the paradox, and that is the truth. It IS within us, and it is both deep and expansive -- unifying the left and right hands of God. And we do not have to contend with pacity, obstruction, or madness as some have done, trying to solely apprehend Oneness via the intellect. As you say, it is the mind trap.

This is why it's strictly not correct for anyone to say the world is a dream or an illusion based upon beyond the concept of what a dream or an illusion is .

It's the mind trap .

x daz x

Exactly...it is the mind trap...and there is much we could say about the workings and underpinnings of this trap. But in the end, the mind cannot attain illumination on its own...but only when in service to the awakened heart centre. Until then, it remains simply a trap.

Peace & blessings Dazzer
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Absolutely Panda .

It's never been about peeps agreeing with me or resonating with me . It's nice at times for peeps to be on the same page, but something I maintain as I can testify on a few other's behalf is that is what they think too .

We are all willing to talk in depth about our reasons for saying what we do and will counter what is said it return .

That's what conversing is all about .

Hey Teds. I have long admired your sincere and honest belief in the honourable intentions of others. I know it's a choice you take each day and it's a worthy one.

I know we can aspire to our better selves, and that while some of us largely can do so more often than not...for so many others, when it's down to an ongoing choice they may decide in either direction. Sometime, it would be nice to unsee not just the vast gap between folks' better selves and their daily, ongoing choices but also their apathy, unkindness, and cruelty. To paraphrase Hannah Arendt (sort of), evil (apathy, depravity and intentional misalignment) has become commonplace and banal. Moral leadership in the modern era is often very narrow in scope or largely hollow and MIA...and increasingly what passes for "leaders" have also come to demonstrate an everyday banality of evil and depravity once reserved for the criminal and amoral. It is all, rather horribly, not really even shocking anymore. The higher bar, the wisdom of our elders or leaders, certainly of our fathers...it's been largely absent during my lifetime. As the Zoomers and Doomers say (Gen Z and "woke" Millenials)...we're spiritually bereft, on top of going up in flames Without the heart centre compass to guide each of us true north, the individual is screwed. Do they forge on ahead fearless on their path and confront the beautiful yet bitter work of the soul, or do they pass on the work of a lifetime and try to somehow coast through life without properly digging in and finding their right alignment with centre?

Now back to showing up for conversation...where do you think many will be on their paths? Unfortunately many either cannot or do not show up honestly, and nor do some intend to have (or even enjoy) an authentic exchange, which in turn requires our authentic presence and our authentic and ongoing self-reflection. In fact, the great joy is really in just all the being and doing of those simple things ;). Showing up and engaging authentically and with honest self-reflection. And that is because it requires we commit truly to ourselves in this moment, simply in order to have an honest conversation. It requires that we be authentically who we are, fully human, present, and aware...and that we choose to engage with others in that same way. Especially, it requires we see one another as unique and of immense worth...beyond measure.

Authentic conversation is what we should all expect from one another and it's what we should strive to give to one another. But that's way, way, waaaay above and beyond what many are willing to do, even if they are able. If folks are not yet consciously living from centre...if they are not yet consciously striving to live in alignment with centre -- to address the "integrity gap" between what they profess and what they do -- then they simply cannot yet have that authentic conversation with you. Because they are still working on showing up authentically to themselves in their own lives. If they're not yet even become aware of the integrity gap, well that's another matter entirely

When things take an ugly turn it's normally as Mike pointed out when beliefs held to be true are questioned it rubs some up the wrong way and they become unkind or simply play the runaround game ..

There really is no need, unless there is ..

What peeps perhaps don't realise or care to register is that by doing what they are doing kinda negates what their saying at times .

x daz x

Yes...well, much of that gets back to not yet realising that there is an integrity gap in all humanity which must be consciously tended to and nurtured into a path of healing and growth. The integrity gap persists within each of us as an unbound and unfettered thing, until we own it and consciously choose to address it. To align our words and deeds with authentic love, to live right-aligned with centre...to lead with the fourth...and all that righteous jazz...

Peace & blessings
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

It's not that big of a deal. It doesn't even matter who is right and who is wrong, because in the end whatever is just is, regardless what we believe.

It isn't worth getting worked up over. Just sit back and enjoy the play, including your part in it. Maybe even get a good chuckle out of it. That's my point. "Realize" what side of the equation you're really on and it won't bother you. Isn't that what all this is really about?

The problem is that there are those that defend their beliefs or their masters in such a way where they lash out and try and discredit others and put them down simply because they question what is said and believed .

I can sit back and enjoy conversations when there is disagreement, but when things go pear shaped in a way where one puts another down and twists and morphs things then I will point this out .

It's not on and it's not called for, all it does is make the dude look like a troll who reflects nothing like the master they try and emulate .

You say it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong and in a way I totally agree, I am more interested in getting to the heart of matters even if that refers to what self is or mind is ..

If it doesn't matter who is right or who is wrong then peeps shouldn't speak in terms of facts and truths should they .

If peeps can't handle a question on such beliefs then what does that say?

When I engage in conversations with others and ask questions upon their statements, I genuinely expect to some degree an open and honest answer in reply ..

It seems a tall order I have found in general, not just on this forum, but it's rife everywhere to some degree .

The same pattern of behaviour is present also which is interesting . You could set your watch by it .

This is why I said to the panda, that I can disagree with many, but that doesn't mean I can't have an open and honest and respectful conversation with them .





x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

H
Well...TBH it is impossible, right? The mystics have always said, let's just speak of Oneness from our own heart centre and in that place, we can begin to apprehend wordless truths and illuminations. Thus we can say that the awakened heart centre is a singularity. It is both dual and non-dual. That is the paradox, and that is the truth. It IS within us, and it is both deep and expansive -- unifying the left and right hands of God. And we do not have to contend with pacity, obstruction, or madness as some have done, trying to solely apprehend Oneness via the intellect. As you say, it is the mind trap.

Exactly...it is the mind trap...and there is much we could say about the workings and underpinnings of this trap. But in the end, the mind cannot attain illumination on its own...but only when in service to the awakened heart centre. Until then, it remains simply a trap.

7L

Hey you

I like the way you explained that ... This I res with .

This is the difference between someone who can understand beyond ness as well as one can comprehend and another who runs around pretending no one is here or the world is a dream etc etc .

It's not realised at all . Consciousness is made up, it's not realised .

All these statements that I come across about Self realisation means this and that makes no bleeding sense to me ..

This is what happens when you question these statements, they either don't answer you, change the subject or put you down lol .

All because of a simple question


x daz x

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

It's not that big of a deal. It doesn't even matter who is right and who is wrong, because in the end whatever is just is, regardless what we believe.

It isn't worth getting worked up over. Just sit back and enjoy the play, including your part in it. Maybe even get a good chuckle out of it. That's my point. "Realize" what side of the equation you're really on and it won't bother you. Isn't that what all this is really about?

Well said.

And some people seem to have nothing better to do than make post after post grousing about how disgruntled other people are. They seem to take that their beliefs were questioned very seriously ... but you know, I agree with you. I'm just going to leave that to them - I have better things to do.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Exactly...it is the mind trap...and there is much we could say about the workings and underpinnings of this trap. But in the end, the mind cannot attain illumination on its own...but only when in service to the awakened heart centre. Until then, it remains simply a trap.

Peace & blessings Dazzer
7L

Not only a trap but it's denial . For one to swear blue to what was realised is basically lying to themselves and others .

I don't mind standing up to that statement because there isn't anything realised .

What peeps conclude thereafter is another matter that relates to something that is beyond conceptual understanding ..

I am up for debating what is pointed to that is beyond the pointer but we have to establish first the foundation of what the pointer consists of in actuality, as in not being realised .

I have had chats with folk that swear black and blue that non conceptual pointers are the truth of what was realised .

As you can imagine conversations from this point on become weirder and weirder and insults cool of their tongue lol .

What I find is that peeps in these instances dig deeper and deeper and will hold onto to their beliefs whether one is in denial or not and continue to put another down .

This is the hypocrisy, the irony, the contradiction, that myself and others have pointed out who have experienced the same abuse .

Is this the behaviour of someone who proclaims they know Self and oneness .. and all that jazz . Of course not .

This is why some become so blinded by their own expression, that they cannot even see how it actually looks .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Now back to showing up for conversation...where do you think many will be on their paths? Unfortunately many either cannot or do not show up honestly, and nor do some intend to have (or even enjoy) an authentic exchange, which in turn requires our authentic presence and our authentic and ongoing self-reflection. In fact, the great joy is really in just all the being and doing of those simple things ;). Showing up and engaging authentically and with honest self-reflection. And that is because it requires we commit truly to ourselves in this moment, simply in order to have an honest conversation. It requires that we be authentically who we are, fully human, present, and aware...and that we choose to engage with others in that same way. Especially, it requires we see one another as unique and of immense worth...beyond measure.

7L

Hey Panda,

Just picking out things as I go along, been busy with work ..

I have learned a lot through life by suffering at the hands of another where mental and emotional abuse was rife as you know .

So basically something is not quite right in all honesty when peeps are expressing unkindness and dishonesty to other's and self .

In my life thus far I have learned a great deal about the inns and outs of peoples expression and it helps me gauge where another is at within themselves on certain levels .

Dishonesty, denial and unkind expressions aimed towards other's shows a lack of love of themselves .

This is the irony in all this with grand masters declaring the absolute truth about Self .

It doesn't work, this is why I said to running a while back that a Self realised peep won't kill a fly out of irritation while being in total bliss .

Is doesn't work . It's simply a matter of fact .

Just as it doesn't snow in a heatwave lol .

What I have found common is for peeps to want to deflect and make it out that it is you that is the problem even though one has stood true on the matter from the start .

This I found with seeing my mum get blamed for being too spiritual by her partner who was simply jealous of her and lacking any real self honestly .

The abuse she got from being true to herself and others was rife for many years .

The main issue as I see it is the hole that one digs deeper and deeper for oneself who isn't honest and true to begin with .

I had an ongoing conversation elsewhere with a group of people where some would proclaim truth realisations and because some of us wouldn't agree with that in the way that they described we were abused and discredited and put down because we hadn't had this particular realisation they had .

When questioned they couldn't answer anything in relation to what they ACTUALLY realised and all they could offer was pointers that were conceptual but just as truthful as the non conceptual .

It made no sense whatsoever and over time everything got twisted and morphed and insults were rife ... all down to questioning their initial statement made in truth .

We are all at different stages within ourselves, it's just a little as I said ironic to see this behaviour on a spiritual platform .

This is why I have always asked peeps to address what they initially said and what I actually said and ask why was there the put downs . What created the insults and put downs . One really has to be honest with oneself, but on a public forum one rarely does that .


x daz x