Religious Tolerance

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Matty

Jesus was against treating God or the Holy Spirit nor the Word as a ritual.

Anything to shows he was against ritual?
He was specifically against bragging about religious practice and observance. Recall the many exchanges with the Pharisees.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Matty

Thin ice is the only way to go

If Jesus was worried about not walking on thin ice and just agreeing with everyone for the sake of feeling safe or look better in others eyes. Then he would of never been Jesus Christ

The thin ice relates to the perceived difference between spirituality and religion. Etymologically and practically there is no real difference. The only difference is one of perception: religion is mostly viewed as communal and spirituality as individual.

So is a Protestant not going to church suddenly non-religious and spiritual? Is the secular Buddhist the height of spirituality because he just does it at home?

All are still following religious teachings, doing 'practices', having beliefs, and so forth.

The distinction is meaningless, often to separate ourselves from ''those religious types'' and elevate ourselves as the ''spiritual'' label carries a friendly image.

[BigJohn]

Interesting discussion.

Much 'food' to digest.


Thanks.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Thanks for your wonderful discussion.

As for me, I have an affinity for the Parsees.

One famous chap, who lived in the State I live in now, tried building a Parsee Temple back in the 1870's. He had a road built to the top of a small mountain, flatten the mountain top so a Temple could be built. He dedicated the Temple to the Parsees on July 4 of that year in front of towns people, Indians and politicians.

Thanks for bringing up the Parsees.

And thanks for the information regarding Parsees in your country.

Zoroastrianism is a monotheistic faith similar to Judaism, and the Parsees are an intelligent and industrious people.

It's possible that early Christianity may have gained some ideas and beliefs from the Zoroastrian religion through interaction in the middle east during those times.

[BigJohn]

And one does not have to wait for the 'apple to fall from the tree' to see the contributions the Parsees have made to the World, especially thru India's industries.

[Matty]

Originally Posted by Altair

The thin ice relates to the perceived difference
The distinction is meaningless, often to separate ourselves from ''those religious types'' and elevate ourselves as the ''spiritual'' label carries a friendly image.

Exactly, this perceived difference is an downfall of mankind. As I mentioned about how Jesus didn't care one bit how man perceived him, only how God perceived him. The more the people in "power" that was separating the people from God became angry at Jesus. The more this showed Jesus just how much the people needed and wanted God.

Word's themselves have a perceived difference all over even in this forum. Let's take the word "Ego" 20 people can use the word Ego and 20 people will have a different view or meaning of what Ego means. You can see it in every discussion that uses "Ego". Majority of society is same way, society will create a false idea if what something is and create a new meaning for the defining word. Then these words normally will be used as weapons if some sort, like the word "Ego" for instance.
We create as a society this perceived difference in many ways either it's religion, spirituality, crazy, introvert, normal, clean room, messy room....so on so on

Usually all this perceived difference's is just a way or tool to make said person "feel" better about themselves. Even the concept of redefining words, how many people are willing to admit that they actually don't really know what the word in question actually means? If they are wrong about 1 thing, how much more are they wrong about? Will they let themselves stop this denial that they already rooted so deep within?
Or will it just be easier to keep on truckin on in denial. And continue to cover up the hurt, pain, anger, remorse, sorrow, etc etc.
This is the socially accepted and reinforced way. It doesn't matter if someone uses "Spiritual" "Religion" or "Psychology" or any other rationalization to cover it up.

The thing about "Spirituality" this can and will be a dangerous thing for so many reasons. That majority people do not understand why, mostly don't care to nor willing to. Many will just consider it a fun thing or something cool they learned from tv or website. Then there's the circle je__ where people talk as if they know instead if trying to know. This happens everywhere....it's not just a "religion" thing but religion is a easy target for rationalization.
Just look at how many people blame religion for war and every other thing they can.
Look at the some of the more recent fanatics that used the concept of religion to fuel there anger. That the even the leaders of said religion has denied the views of such people, such as Osama bin laden. Way before there anger turned to violence
It's easier to shift blame, I had a negative entity invade my dream this negative being caused negative emotions or dark energy....is it to so hard to admit that we can possibly have a non sunshine and rainbows about us. That we even blame some supernatural enity rather than admitting. That we have anger or what have you inside us because of our own actions our own faults.

I think i might have gotten a little of track.....or did I

It's like how so much nonsense about Jesus went to China or India or whatever the new consensus is. They say the same thing about Shakespeare, he couldn't wrote any of that he wasn't prestigious enough or educated enough....

[Matty]

Originally Posted by Altair

Anything to shows he was against ritual?
He was specifically against bragging about religious practice and observance. Recall the many exchanges with the Pharisees.

I believe this is an semantics issue.
Where you use modern term "robot" the NT uses "ritual"
When people see "ritual" they automatically think of certain things....I tried to express defining "ritual" previously.
But so far you have been describing what Jesus was talking about and even paul taught.
Jesus wants and wanted people to be boastful about God, he asked people to be boastful or proud that they had Faith not hide it.

Just like whenever he healed someone or any type of miracle or anything. He wanted them to go about and tell others and express and show there faith in God.

To answer the other questions, does it matter where you worship God? If indeed you are praising God
Church, Home, Street, Mall, Airport....does the building defy who or what God is? Jesus preached or taught in a boat by the shore in the street and even in bars.

Paul was of Roman heritage, he say what Jesus was teaching. In Rome everything was of ritual like behavior just as Jesus was expressing in what he was saying. Even Ceaser consider themselves God and as the ritualistic behavior the Romans had. They treated and did what he said as a God like figure. Paul understood that Jesus was telling people to stop worshipping men instead of God. To stop giving people the power and praise instead of onto God. Paul killed countless people and Christians under this false sense of robotic behavior. Believing it is right and just to kill anyone this false idol called Ceaser commanded.
Paul understood just how wrong he and his people was and just how profound the very thing he previously without question tried to destroy.
Paul understood the darkness of the world because he was a trained solder of that darkness. That kept Ceaser in power

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Ayar415,
Is that not what I said?

You said we did not get our independence on July 4, 1776, when we told Great Britain to bugger off and started the shooting war. April 9, 1784, was a technicality nit-picked by intellectuals.

Let put it this way. Independence is in the eyes of the beholder. Consider you have a bad relationship with your rebellious son. On July 4, 1776, your 13-year-old son has had it with you, and wants to be his own man. To you, the father, your son does not have independence till he gains his majority in April 1784 when he reaches the age of 21. Until then, he must do what you say. Your son says no, takes up a big stick, and whacks you every time you go near him. You call the cops to no avail and after 8 years you stop doing so on April 9, 1784, when you no longer have parental control in the eyes of the law.

It is what is in essence that matters, not form. Likewise, religion without essence is a meaningless ritual.

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

How many people remember the date of when they proposed?

Good question.

There was a time when chastity was a virtue, and virginity was not criticized as a social construct. You don't have sex till you are married. Wedding night was special and you know when because it is on your marriage certificate.

These days, married couples don't even remember when they first slept together.

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by ajay00

An interesting instance of religious tolerance and acceptance in history happened between the Hindus of India and the Zoroastrians of Persia who arrived in India as immigrants, fleeing religious persecution after the Arab conquest of Persia.

Interesting. I have always wondered by the Northern natives of India are so fair-skinned and claim Aryan racial heritage.