Accepting the role of Guardians of the natural world and our species evolution.

[Aldous]

Climate Hustle (2016)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyzTm9kkV9Y

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by weareunity

my own feeling is that our continuing existence and therefore possible evolution requires us to find/rediscover and recognise our place as part of the interconnected whole of the process of existence.

Some existing and some earlier cultures know/knew of this inextricable interdependence--not necessarily by means of what we now call scientific knowledge but as a result of thoughtful realisation of the multitude of the interconnections and interdependence.

I agree that realization of multiple inter-connections and interdependence can lead to reverence for creation and gratitude for nature's gift . And that indeed can bring paradigm shift in conscious evolution of the species.
You articulated it nicely.

[weareunity]

Hi Hitesh.
thanks for the confirmation that what I have attempted to communicate can be understood.

hopefully the following may also be understood.

The observation of interconnection and interdependence being a characteristic of existence as one process can be used as an "entry" to a changed way of being.--a way of being which does not need to be searched for/sought as such, just simply accepted.

What begins as an objective observation of interconnection and interdependence as being a characteristic of existence as process---imo even if much of such interconnection and interdependence is not yet fully understood---becomes a "mind" concept.

Once the mind then realises that "it" and "its" accompanying physical being is included inexextricably in this process, then another doorway opens--a doorway in the nature of a changed perception of "self".--"self" as interconnected and interdependent part/component of whole, of all which is, takes shape.

A further doorway is passed through when mind chooses to behave and act in accord with this " fresh" ( to mind) perception.
This is not the banishing of "selfish/self centred" behaviour but the loving willingness/desire to now behave as being part of the whole--simply choosing to cross the threshold from mind awareness to total being.

This transformation/change by whatever name does not imo have to be considered a spiritual transformation nor solely facilitated by spiritual means/belief.

cheers.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by weareunity

This transformation/change by whatever name does not imo have to be considered a spiritual transformation nor solely facilitated by spiritual means/belief.

Ok fine . Let's not consider it spiritual transformation (though I myself is quite comfortable with word spiritual along with its associated teachings ) . Then what would you like to call it (like Renaissance, rejuvenation ,revitalization ,regeneration , rebirth , awakening OR simply no name with mysterious /mystical / mythical experiences ) . For learning I suppose some nomenclature is required . So suggest some word based on your understanding.

[weareunity]

Hello Hitesh,

No name, no label. just some thoughts to share. Thoughts seeming to be in a logical progression to me. The process of existence functions with logical predictability given sufficient knowledge of the characteristics and properties of the mix of variables which combine in creating consequences--which then in their turn etc. etc. etc......Our species has garnered a certain amount of knowledge from objective analysis and observation--imo sufficient knowledge to have confidence in the role of logical predictability in the process of existence, though (obviously) much remains to be revealed.

Perhaps much which remains to be revealed is not accessible by means of objective observation and analysis simply because at certain limits we are unable to be objectively seperated from that which we observe and attempt to analyse.

As a thought of considerable conjecture--the possibility of garnering further knowledge beyond this point may be dependant upon our willingness and ability to behave and act in accord with the perception that we--and all--are not merely observers of some phenomenon which we call material existence, but are constantly active components in the whole process of existence.

We might think of this possibility as being some sort of safeguard keeping further knowledge beyond our reach until such time as we have evolved sufficiently regarding our perception of our inextricable interconnection and interdependence in the process of existence.

Such thoughts might seem to indicate that there is some guiding hand regulating this safeguard. --and many will and do understandably believe that such is the case. Perhaps there is no guiding hand, but perhaps there is a guiding process.

The process of loving is indeed a great mystery, unfathomable perhaps but exceedingly apparent both in presence and absence--and imo--playing a large "role" in the process we call empathy. --- the willingness, the compassionate desire, the ability, to perceive, understand and know by means which are not wholly dependant upon objective observation and analysis.

It seems to me to be logical to suggest that knowing and behaving with the perception that we--and all-- are inextricably interconnected and interdependant as components in the process of existence will--and does-- greatly enhance the possibility of developing empathic ability.

And so, perhaps the existence of a "guiding process" is also entirely logical. Though such possibility does not make such a process any less mysterious--but perhaps that really doesn't matter, perhaps we do not need to understand it by any means which we have previously relied upon, but simply feel it and know it as our empathic ability develops.

cheers.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by weareunity

No name, no label. just some thoughts to share.

And so, perhaps the existence of a "guiding process" is also entirely logical. Though such possibility does not make such a process any less mysterious--but perhaps that really doesn't matter, perhaps we do not need to understand it by any means which we have previously relied upon, but simply feel it and know it as our empathic ability develops.

Indeed , 'Guiding process' without any naming labeling too can help any transformation .

[weareunity]

Hello.

As per attempt in post 13 to describe a possible sequence leading to "transformation" actually happening, that process imo is "stuck" in the state of being a mind concept until the "doing" happens.

Perhaps this may be because the "doing" has more "tangible" consequences in the process of existence than the personally adopted mind concept is able to generate in isolation?

I guess its simply the difference between "could/should" and "does" ? --A question of difference much discussed throughout history I imagine--and those more knowledgeable in such matters than myself will know.

What does occur imo however is that whilst "could/should" may be adopted as a personal "truth" which in its turn leads to "does", reversing the sequence does not does not generate a truly personal "truth", but only the observation of a happening which may/may not be externally declared as "truth" ?

cheers.

[Altair]

Humans have a huge impact on the environment. Our role in it is nothing to do with destiny or something of that sort. It's a plain, urgent and rational obligation. If we wish to live in a liveable, pleasant environment then we need to do our part.

[weareunity]

Hello Altair.

Your post emphasises the "common sense" of the actions which we should/could need to put into practice because of dependence upon the climate characteristics to which we have become accustomed and literally "acclimatised".

Unfortunately,whilst the "sense" might seem common and obvious, the actions are very far from commonly agreed or practised.

Part of the "problem" in this regard is that the predictions cannot be absolutely verified as certainties until it is too late to take remedial action because by then some of the causal factors will have passed beyond the "tipping point" of positive feedback between cause and consequence.

This has understandably provided an arena of uncertainty with many players with varying motivations on the stage.

The consequence of this has been the creation of a situation in which we now find ourselves regarding the personal and international response to action which can most charitably be described as piecemeal and fragmented---but imo probably more accurately characterised as being too feeble in the necessary ambition, and looking like being too late in effectiveness.

If,-- from day one of recognition that yes, we have evidence of the probability that there is a climate "problem" looming,-- we had a personal sense/perception of the (and our) inextricable interconnection and interdependence of (and within) the whole process of existence then that would--and still could imo-- have greatly facilitated the willing cooperation and changes to behaviour which this "problem" requires if it is to be accomodated within our capabilities as a species.--and on behalf of all species with which we share this planet.

Now, you could call this imo required change in perception a "spiritual change", a perceptual change, or just a necessary change.

It might even be a consequential change which comes about as response the situation in which we now find ourselves. A form of species evolution.

Who knows ?--but we are--imo--about to find out.

cheers.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Part of the "problem" in this regard is that the predictions cannot be absolutely verified as certainties until it is too late to take remedial action because by then some of the causal factors will have passed beyond the "tipping point" of positive feedback between cause and consequence.

That's on an abstract level. There is climate change, and humans play a role in it. To what extend we can reduce impact is a matter of debate, and whilst detailed arcane discussions are interesting, they aren't really necessary in practice for everyone. On a more practical level we can observe both droughts and flooding, deforestation and pollution of all kinds (air, water, soil, plastic). These are all urgent matters.