Truth takes no prisoners

[movingalways]

When we first start 'going within' for answers, we believe we are seeking truth, but for most, including myself, it isn't truth we are seeking, but some sort of permanent state of being or awareness or mystical reality upon which to rest our weary, questing "I." As an example, for some, the concept 'nonduality' is believed to be an actual or real resting state of 'I-will-eternally-be-aware-of-not-two' or for those who are more spiritually inclined, the concept 'Spirit' is believed to be an actual or real resting-moving state of 'I-Am-omniscience/omnipresence/omnipotence.'

The desire for a permanent spiritual resting state is a natural part of the truth-seeking process but as we continue to dig deeper into our understandable desire for form permanency, we discover the hard truth that every word heard is an impermanent appearance. 'Love' is an impermanent word-sound appearance. 'Bliss' is an impermanent word-sound appearance, just as "God" and "I Am" and "Spirit" and "duality/nonduality" are impermanent word-sound appearances. One can prove the transitory nature of words to themselves by asking "where is the 'I am' (or 'God' or 'Spirit' or 'love' or 'nonduality', etc.) before hearing their word-sounds?"

What we ultimately discover when we pass through our need for a permanent state of awareness is that suffering doesn't end until there is total acceptance of impermanency. This is what is meant by "dying before we die."

Truth is hard until it isn't. And yes, even 'truth' is an impermanent word-sound.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by movingalways

When we first start 'going within' for answers, we believe we are seeking truth, but for most, including myself, it isn't truth we are seeking, but some sort of permanent state of being ... The desire for a permanent spiritual resting state is a natural part of the truth-seeking process. ...What we ultimately discover when we pass through our need for a permanent state of awareness is that suffering doesn't end until there is total acceptance of impermanency.

Indeed, there is no permanency in form because the nature of form is limitation and change. So if we look to form for satisfaction then we always come up against limitation.

But that which is seeking these answers is formless by nature. And formlessness is permanent and limitless.

Hence the need to go within. There is a permanent state of Being, a permanent spiritual resting state. It gazes out of our eyes in each moment, but it is so close that we overlook it in our search.

We are awareness seeking itself, but most of us are searching in the wrong place.

Peace

[movingalways]

Form is not separate or different from formlessness. The emptiness of form is its impermanence.

"There is a blaze of light in every word." ~ Leonard Cohen.

"Emptiness is form, form is emptiness." ~ The Buddha

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by movingalways

When we first start 'going within' for answers, we believe we are seeking truth, but for most, including myself, it isn't truth we are seeking, but some sort of permanent state of being or awareness or mystical reality upon which to rest our weary, questing "I."

Very interesting post, good observations. I think what you describe as the seeker going inside seeking a permanent state often happens in the beginning
of such things as meditation. Lots of stuff is overlaid helpfully and unhelpfully onto the seeker, maybe religion etc. etc. The word Enlightenment etc. pertains to a holy grail
a permanent resting place in human terms as you say.

But if and when you stick around you begin to see the enquiry in the form of meditation at least brings a Revelation. Things are Revealed rather than created by the mind,
something is revealed beyond and also through the mind and emotions. That which is seen has been there all along or it hasn't been anywhere all along, so now it is difficult to describe without limitation what you have seen what has been uncovered IS. So I've heard a good few people talk about dropping stuff away in meditation as opposed to acquiring new dispositions etc.

The mind does emulate Enlightenment and love in the form of Art. Especially Art but I suppose Enlightenment also finds it's reflections and pointers in Science
and other areas of life, child rearing, work etc. etc. etc. My small take on this interesting question. Although I have alot more to say, I feel I actually know the answer hahahaha But do I ?

__________________________________________________ __________

[Ewwerrin]

Delete. (Duplicate)

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by movingalways

Form is not separate or different from formlessness. The emptiness of form is its impermanence.

All form originates from formlessness and returns to formlessness. Formlessness pervades all form. But form does not pervade all formlessness.
There are states of Being, states of formlessness, where form does not exist.

Peace

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by movingalways

... , it isn't truth we are seeking, but some sort of permanent state of being or awareness or mystical reality upon which to rest our weary, questing "I."

Yeah, seeking nonduality took my idea of self away and left universal truth. It's funny.

Originally Posted by movingalways

, the concept 'Spirit' is believed to be an actual or real resting-moving state of 'I-Am-omniscience/omnipresence/omnipotence.'

Yeah. The movement is stillness. Unchaning Uniqueness of existence, always Timelessly Being New here and now, appearing as change. They are both about the same nonduality. Change=unchanging. Its simply Uniqueness.

Originally Posted by movingalways

One can prove the transitory nature of words to themselves by asking "where is the 'I am' (or 'God' or 'Spirit' or 'love' or 'nonduality', etc.) before hearing their word-sounds?"

Yes. Awareness and nondual Uniqueness always is. Wether we are aware of it or not.

Originally Posted by movingalways

Truth is hard until it isn't. And yes, even 'truth' is an impermanent word-sound.

haha, I am glad I can resonate more with you than just the word sounds. But you are honestly correct.

Thanks for sharing all that. Enjoyed reading it.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by iamthat

We are awareness seeking itself, but most of us are searching in the wrong place.

Peace

Thank you, that is beautifully said.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by movingalways

Form is not separate or different from formlessness. The emptiness of form is its impermanence.

Impermanence is based on time. Existence is timeless and beyond time also. Right here and now, it is BEING unique, without ever having changed. Time is a misconception.

Look at your clock. Tik... tok... Every tik is unique. Every tok is unique. WITHOUT EVER HAVING CHANGED.

This is nonduality.

It should awe an individual. Baffle their mind. Everything is forever Unique!

You have never experienced this before. EVER. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER! NEVER EVER EVER NEVER! Again and again and again and again and again. Forever.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by movingalways

What we ultimately discover when we pass through our need for a permanent state of awareness is that suffering doesn't end until there is total acceptance of impermanency. This is what is meant by "dying before we die."

While it may work for a time, (these concepts always do) won't the fact you seek the permanent by going to the next level and saying the permanent is impermanent itself eventually fall by the wayside the way so many other concepts intended to be 'permanent' always seem to?