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  #1  
Old 04-10-2021, 04:20 AM
The Anointed
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Exodus

One would think that the Jews know the date of Israel's exodus from Egypt, but I wonder if there is anyone from the Jewish faith, who is prepared to reveal to those on this forum, the year when the exodus occurred?
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Old 04-10-2021, 06:19 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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     1513 BC.
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Old 05-10-2021, 01:07 AM
The Anointed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
     1513 BC.

And how did you arrive at that date John?

Knowing that the Hebrew bible and Jerome's Latin translation both erroneously state in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites were in Egypt for 430 years to the day, that would mean that the exodus occurred sometime in the 13 century B.C.

But you are reasonably close John, in that you have the correct century.

Jericho was destroyed forty years after the exodus, and Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

The radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%, confirm that the biblical date of 1527 BC for the destruction, agrees with Kathleen Kenyon’s findings.

1562 (minus 38 years) [1562-38=1524 BC.] this would mean that Jericho fell somewhere between 1562 and 1524 BC, close enough to the 40 years after Josephus’ date for the Exodus in 1567. [1567 minus 40=1527 BC].

Even if we take the earliest date for the destruction of Jericho according to the archaeologist's findings, which is 1524 B.C., your date for the exodus would still be some 51 years after the event.

But if you made your calculation from the erroneous, statement in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites were in the land of Egypt for 430 years, you would have to have the Exodus occurring over 200 years after the the correct date, for according to the reckoning of the Christian theologians who erroneous believe that Israel was in Egypt for 430 years, then to them, the Exodus must have occurred in the 13th century B.C.

IMO, the scriptures give the date of the exodus as around 1542, when the Hyksos Shepherd Kings were expelled from Egypt, after ruling there for over 200 years. Although I believe that there is enough biblical evidence to support Josephus's date of 1567, as the date of the exodus of the Israelites, living under the rule of the Hyksos king Apopis.

This was the king referred to in Exodus 1: 4; "Then a new king, who knew nothing about Joseph, came to power in Egypt." This is the king who ordered that all new born Israelite males, be exposed on the river Nile, and who forced the Israelites into slavery, and Apopis, the last Hyksos king, who reigned from 1585 to 1542 B.C. was the King who was forced to allow Moses to free God's chosen son Israel, leaving him without the forces to defend himself against the rebellious Ahmose I, who reigned 1570-1546 BC, or 1539-14, or (unknown to 1524) take your pick, and who defeated the forces of Apopis, and brought the Hyksos rulership to an end.

PBU You John.

Last edited by The Anointed : 05-10-2021 at 08:51 PM.
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  #4  
Old 05-10-2021, 01:51 AM
The Anointed
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Continued from post#3.

In Galatians 3: 17; Paul says; “What I mean, is that God made a covenant with Abraham and promised to keep it. The Law that was given four hundred and thirty years later, (That is 430 years after God’s covenant/promise with Abraham) cannot break and cancel God’s promise.”

And that first covenant God made with Abraham was---“Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and your descendants will inherit that land,” this was the first covenant/promise that God made with Abraham.

The Roman OT, and the English Hebrew bible, both state in Exodus 12: 40; that the children of Israel were in the actual land of Egypt for 430 years to the day, Whereas the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible by 70 Jews in Alexandria some 300 years B C E, from which translation Jesus and his apostles taught, in Exodus 12: 40 reveals that the sojourning of the children of Israel, while they sojourned in the land of Egypt AND THE LAND OF CANAAN, was 430 years. And it came to pass, after the 430 years, all the forces of the Lord came out of the land of Egypt ‘BY NIGHT’.

That was the night that was the beginning of the 24 hour day of the 15th of Nisan, the first of the seven day festival of unleavened Bread, and the day after the one day festival of Passover, when all the first born males of Egypt were killed.

From the Encarta encyclopedia: “Hyksos,” Semitic invaders who conquered Egypt in the early part of the 17th century BC and founded the 15th Dynasty. Sweeping south into Egypt, probably from Palestine and Syria, they and their nomadic followers captured Memphis and exacted tribute from the rest of the country. They established a stronghold at Avaris (possibly the later Tanis), on the northeastern border of the Nile delta, but left the territory above Memphis under the rule of tributary princes of the old nobility. These vassals started the nationalistic revolt that finally, under Ahmose I (reigned 1570-1546 BC), founder of the 18th Dynasty, drove out the foreign rulers.”

Although it is said in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites had lived in Egypt for 430 years, in Galatians 3: 17; Paul makes it quite clear that they were in the land of Egypt for only 215 years. See Gal 3: 17; which states, “God made a covenant/promise with Abraham and promised to keep it. The Law that was given [through Moses] 430 years later, cannot break that covenant and cancel God’s promise.” Plus, the Greek Septuagint and the Samaritan bible, in the same verse (Exodus 12: 40) have Abraham and his descendants sojourning in the land ‘of Canaan 'AND" Egypt’ for 430 years.

Paul was a student of Gamaliel, one of the greatest Jewish teachers of those days, and if we accept Paul’s statement, that there was a period of 430 years between the time that God promised to Abraham, all the land that was occupied by the descendants of Canaan, and the exodus, then we must conclude that the children of Israel were only in Egypt for 215 years.

Abraham, who had entered Canaan at the age of 75, 25 years later when he was 100 sired Isaac, who was 60 when his son Jacob was born, and Jacob was 130 when he was reunited with his son Joseph in the land of Egypt. 25+60+130=215. So, we see that there was a period of 215 years between God’s promise to Abraham and the entry of the family of Israel into Egypt, where they dwelt for 215 years before departing 430 years after the covenant/promise was first made with Abraham.

And the reason why there are no records of the Exodus in the time period in which our religious historians have searched and which the bible students, who believe the erroneous statement that the children of Israel were in Egypt for 430 years and must therefore have departed somewhere in the time period of 1300 B.C, is because the Exodus and the expulsion of the old Hyksos Kings in the 15TH century B.C, were around the same time.

In the early part of the 17TH century B.C, Semetic invaders (Called Hyksos) swept into Egypt. They would control Egypt for roughly two centuries.” --- (215 years if we are to believe the Bible.) The establishment of a Hyksos dynasty in northern Egypt marked the beginning of the Second Intermediate period, a time of turmoil and disunity that lasted for some 215 years.

From ‘The World Book Dictionary,’ (Hyksos) “A succession of six foreign rulers of Egypt—from about 1730 B.C. to about 1570 B.C; Shepherd Kings.” --- And from the Encyclopedia Britannica, ‘Hyksos’, invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of “King Tutimaios” entered Egypt and took possession of it ‘WITHOUT STRIKING A BLOW’ and it is said here that Josephus the historian, identifies them with the Israelites and that they left Egypt in 1567 B.C.

Is there any other way that we can date the Exodus of the Israelite shepherds? There certainly is.

1 Kings 6: 1; States that it was 480 years after the exodus, that Solomon began to build the temple, which took seven years to complete. According to Josephus the Jewish historian, the temple stood for four hundred and seventy years six months and ten days before it was sacked and burned by Nebuchadnezzar’s forces in 587 B.C.

587 B.C., + the four hundred and seventy years six months and ten days, rounded off to four hundred and seventy and one years that the Temple stood + the seven years it took to build, after the 480 years since the Exodus and we have 587 B.C., + 471 years = 1058 B.C., + 7 years = 1065 B.C., + 480 years = 1545 B.C., three years before the last of the Hyksos Kings ‘Apopis’ was defeated by Ahmose I in 1542.

Peace.
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Old 05-10-2021, 02:22 AM
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High 5, John...impressive TA.
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Old 05-10-2021, 03:00 AM
The Anointed
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Continued from post#4.

From ‘The World Book Dictionary,’ (Hyksos) “A succession of six foreign rulers of Egypt—from about 1730 B.C. to about 1570 B.C; Shepherd Kings.” --- And from the Encyclopedia Britannica, ‘Hyksos’, invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of “King Tutimaios” entered Egypt and took possession of it ‘WITHOUT STRIKING A BLOW’ and it is said here that Josephus the historian, identifies them with the Israelites and that they left Egypt in 1567 B.C.

Genesis 41: After Joseph had revealed to the king that his dreams were a prophecy telling of a seven-year period of plenty, which would be followed by a seven years period of severe drought, Joseph is made Governor of all Egypt, and all Egyptians were commanded by the King to obey him. The King removed his royal ring with its engraved seal and put it on the finger of Joseph. He was given the second royal chariot and a guard of honour who went ahead of him crying out, “Make way, make way.” And the King said: I am King, but no one in all of Egypt shall so much as lift a hand or a foot without Joseph’s permission. He gave Joseph an Egyptian wife, Asenath, the daughter of the High priest of Heliopolis, who prophesied that if ever the bones of Joseph left Egypt, the LIGHT of Egypt would go with him. For that reason, a permanent guard was set up to keep watch over the tomb of Joseph, in order that no one could remove the mummified body of Joseph.

During the seven years of plenty, Joseph gathered a percentage of the Egyptian grain crop as a tax, which was stored in silos throughout Egypt. In the early stages of the great seven-year drought, the Egyptians had to buy their grain from Joseph, when their money had all gone, they traded their possessions and livestock, after which, they were forced to sign their land over for grain in order to survive.

Genesis 47: 20-21. Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for the king. Every Egyptian was forced to sell their land, because the famine was so severe; Joseph made slaves of all the people from one end of Egypt to the other, ‘without striking a blow.

Joshua 17: 1; Machir, who was a military Hero during the reign of the Shepherd Kings, was long dead by the time of the Exodus.

The military forces of the ruling Hyksos under the command of Machir, were described as bowmen and cavalrymen wearing the cloaks of many colours, much like the cloak of many colours that was worn by Joseph the son of Israel and the Governor of all Egypt while under the Hyksos king, of who it is said in Genesis 50: 23; that he (Joseph) lived to receive the children of Machir the son of Manasseh into the family. And in Judges 5: 14, it is written that the commanders of the army came down from Machir, of who it is said in Joshua 17: 1; that Machir was the firstborn son of Manasseh, the first born of Joseph, and that he was a military hero, and the father of young Gilead.

Gilead the first born of Machir would have been welcomed into the family by Joseph, and presumably, the funeral procession of Young Gilead who is thought to have died childless beside his father ‘Machir’ in a war against the people of the country that would later carry his name, ‘The land of Gilead’ which land was allocated to the descendants of Machir after the exodus.

The funeral procession of Gilead would have been led by his great grandfather Joseph, and possibly buried in his own tomb, which was to be later placed under a permanent guard against tomb robbers, because the high priest of Heliopolis had prophesied that if ever the bones of Joseph left Egypt, the LIGHT of Egypt would go with him.

After the Exodus of the Israelites, and the removal of the mummified remains of Joseph, which were to be taken to Shechem and buried there in the land of Israel as per Joseph’s last wish, the Egyptian Guards would have been removed, and any grave robbers who were later confronted with the opened sarcophagus’ of Joseph and his wife in the empty tomb, would have assumed that others had beaten them to the treasures that the tomb of Joseph would have contained, and would have left empty handed, not realizing, that there could have been a sealed chamber at the back of Joseph’s tomb, in which Gilead may have been buried.

Even though Joseph was Governor of all Egypt, he remained subject to the Hyksos King, and when Jacob, his father died, He still had to ask for the king’s permission to leave the country.

Genesis 50: 4-9; When the time of mourning was over, Joseph said to the king's officials, “Please take this message to the king: ‘When my father was about to die, he made me promise him that I would bury him in the tomb which he had prepared in the land of Canaan. So please let me go and bury my father, and then I will come back.’ ” The king answered, “Go and bury your father, as you promised you would.”

So Joseph went to bury his father. All the king's officials, the senior men of his court, and all the leading men of Egypt went with Joseph. His family, his brothers, and the rest of his father's family all went with him. Only their small children and their sheep, goats, and cattle stayed in the region of Goshen. Men in chariots and men on horseback also went with him; it was a huge group.

Genesis 50: 12- So Jacob's sons did as he had commanded them; they carried his body to Canaan and buried it in the cave at Machpelah, east of Mamre, in the field which Abraham had bought from Ephron the Hittite for a burial ground. After Joseph had buried his father, he returned to Egypt with his brothers and all who had gone with him for the funeral.

I will leave it to the reader, to work out for themselves how long the Israelites were in Egypt after the death of Jacob, until 1665, when the new king who knew nothing about Joseph, came to power and subjected them to slavery.

Thanks Miss H, may our God preserve you. BTW, By referring to me as T.A, I hope that you are not suggesting that I am a trades assistant to the Master Builder.

Last edited by The Anointed : 05-10-2021 at 08:57 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-10-2021, 04:47 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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My date pivots from the year Solomon started building the Temple as mentioned in 1 Kings 6:1 which reads: "In the four hundred and eightieth year after the Israelites came out of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon’s reign over Israel, in the month of Ziv, the second month, he began to build the temple of the Lord."

Not all translations translate that verse as 480 years. The Septuagint renders it as 440 years.

The difference is 40 years which corresponds to the number of years the Hebrews wandered in the desert.
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Old 05-10-2021, 04:47 AM
The Anointed
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Continued from post#6.

According to everything that has been said so far, the Israelites left Egypt in the evening after the day of Passover, while the Egyptians were burying their firstborn sons, this was the evening and beginning of the15th day of Nissan=Abib, in the year 1545 B.C.

The Hyksos king would have lost many of his troops in the Red Sea, while pursuing the Israelites in his attempt to bring them back to Egypt, this would have further reduced his forces and his ability to defend himself against Ahmose I, by whom the weakened Hyksos dynasty was defeated.

It is said by many, including myself, that the death of the firstborn sons of Ham, the first born of Noah, was in retaliation for the death of the new born males of the Israelites, but IMO, that was not the main reason.

The scriptures do not reveal exactly what Canaan had done to his grandfather Noah, as he lay naked in a drunken stupor in his tent, so we can only speculate as to what occurred. My own personal opinion is that Canaan, the ancestor of today’s Palestinians, sodomised his grandfather, but like I said, that is only my personal opinion.

Shem, is the younger brother of Ham the firstborn son of Noah, and Ham is the father of Canaan whom Noah cursed when he awoke from his drunken stupor and realised what his youngest ben=male descendant [Canaan] had done to him. After cursing Canaan, Shem was given the blessing of first born by Noah, which was removed from his elder brother, “Ham,” because of what his son Canaan had done to him. See Genesis 9: 24 to 27.

Because Shem was given the blessing of first born by Noah, which was removed from his elder brother, “Ham,” later copies of the scriptures have erroneously placed Shem as the actual first son sired by Noah.

The scriptures tell us that Noah had begun his family when he had turned 500, If it had been after he turned 505, the bible would have stated that, if it was after Noah had turned 502, this would have been revealed in scripture, but no! The Bible tells us that it was when Noah turned 500 that he began his family.

לב וַיְהִי-נֹחַ, בֶּן-חֲמֵשׁ מֵאוֹת שָׁנָה; וַיּוֹלֶד נֹחַ, אֶת-שֵׁם אֶת-חָם וְאֶת-יָפֶת. 32 And Noah was five hundred years old; and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Genesis 8: 4; On the seventeenth day of the seventh month of the six hundredth year of Noah, the boat came to rest on a mountain in the Ararat range, revealing that Noah, who began his family with his firstborn son (HAM) in his 500 th year, was six hundred years old when the flood came to its finish.

Then in Genesis 11: 10; we read; “These are the descendants of Shem. Two years after the flood, when Shem was 100 years old etc.” Here, the scriptures reveal to all, that Shem was born when Noah was 502.

And again, in Genesis 10: 21; we read that “Shem is the older brother of Japheth.” Knowing from the scriptures, that Japheth was the younger brother of Shem, and being assured by the scriptures that Shem was born when Noah was 502, and that Noah began his Family when he turned 500; we have deduced from all this, that Ham was the actual firstborn son of Noah, whose firstborn blessing was transferred to Shem.

Even the Hebrew Scriptures would appear to support the fact that Ham is the firstborn followed by Shem the elder brother to Japheth, the youngest son of Noah.

כ אֵלֶּה בְנֵי-חָם, לְמִשְׁפְּחֹתָם לִלְשֹׁנֹתָם, בְּאַרְצֹתָם, בְּגוֹיֵהֶם. {ס} 20 These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, in their nations.

כא וּלְשֵׁם יֻלַּד, גַּם-הוּא: אֲבִי, כָּל-בְּנֵי-עֵבֶר--אֲחִי, יֶפֶת הַגָּדוֹל. 21 And unto Shem, the father of all the children of Eber, the elder brother of Japheth, to him also were children born.

The reason why God sent the descendants of Shem into the land of the firstborn son of Noah, Ham/Egypt, where they interbred with the descendants of Ham the firstborn for 215 years before God killed all the first born Egyptian males, after which he called his son out of Egypt, in who was the spirit of Firstborn, was because of what Canaan the youngest descendant of Noah had done to him while he lay naked in his tent in a drunken stupor.

Genesis 9: 24; When Noah sobered up and learned what his youngest descendant had done to him, he cursed Canaan and blessed his second son Shem, on who he then bestowed the blessing of first born.

Jubilees 7: 13; And Ham knew that his father had cursed his younger son, and he was displeased that he had cursed his son. and he parted from his father, he and his sons with him, Cush and Mizraim and Put and Canaan. And he built for himself a city and called its name after the name of his wife Ne’elatama’uk.

To be continued.
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Old 05-10-2021, 05:09 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn

EXCERPT

My date pivots from the year Solomon started building the Temple as mentioned in 1 Kings 6:1 which reads: "In the four hundred and eightieth year after the Israelites came out of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon’s reign over Israel, in the month of Ziv, the second month, he began to build the temple of the Lord."

Not all translations translate that verse as 480 years. The Septuagint renders it as 440 years.


The Masoretic Text supports the 480 years which might mean we might be looking at another example of another mistranslation in the Septuagint.
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Old 05-10-2021, 05:21 AM
The Anointed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
The Masoretic Text supports the 480 years which might mean we might be looking at another example of another mistranslation in the Septuagint.

Yep! Looks like you have found another example of an altered text, John.

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