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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Taoism

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  #21  
Old 06-05-2020, 08:08 PM
Starjumper7 Starjumper7 is offline
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Why you aren't a Taoist.

it's because Taoism is NOT a philosophy. Anyone who thinks they can get 'it' from reading books is forever lost.

The idea that Taoism is a philosophy is a Western imperialistic definition, done by 'scholars' who like to separate what they like (mental drivel), from what they don't like (Taoist practices).

Taoist 'philosophy' is only truly learned by practicing one or more of the Taoist arts.

Last edited by Starjumper7 : 06-05-2020 at 08:58 PM.
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  #22  
Old 10-05-2020, 02:04 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starjumper7
There are a couple of deeper aspects of this. As you have mentioned, it doesn't do much good for people without the proper experience to hear something that is beyond them. Of course, they will think they then understand it anyway and are then experts. It's because overly mental people confuse mental ideas with real experience ... because that's all they ahve to work with in life.

However, if you can allude to things that they can't relate to in a way that can get through to them, in a way that lets them know that there is something greater out there, then that can serve as useful motivation.

As it say, those who are without desires can see the mystery, but those with desires can only see the manifestations. However, there needs to be some desire instilled in a potential seeker to work to arrive at a desire-less state. This catch 22 situation is described as darkness within darkness.

A similar sentiment to the one quoted is the one which says: "The sage teaches without speaking." Some people wonder, how can this be?

Well, the best way for people to learn is my example. You can tell people to be good till you're blue in the face and it hardly does any good, but if you are a shining example, then they may see the benefit of imitation. It's kind of like telling people to conserve gasoline, they won't do a thing about it till you raise prices.

Another thing about teaching by example, without speaking, is that sages are nei kung masters, and nei kung is taught without speaking. So the sage teaches by leading an ethical life and teaching nei kung. However some of them delight in telling ghost stories.

yeah words get in the way when trying to teach about something like the Tao! Very confusing especially in the english language... much better to just sit still and if someone decides to want to watch they might get something out of it lol! That is better anyway, all sorts of control issues with words, the speaker kinda 'owns' the thoughts. So letting people alone alleviates that as well.

yeah my reading of the TTC has it talking about 'ideals' rather than 'virtue' the way it is commonly translated. But 'virtue' could be described as 'sticking to an ideal' so the two are related anyway.

Anywho when you see sorta what the Tao is like, you start making mental maps (because people always do that lol). That is kind of like, making an 'ideal' for what it should be like.

For a long time you might be using desire to head toward this ideal that you see. Which in part for Tao becomes a path toward lessening the very desires that keep you going along the path? So as always there is paradox involved. But Lao Tzu did say there comes a time, when you drop the thoughts about the ideal and just kinda step out into the mystery without it.
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  #23  
Old 11-05-2020, 04:43 AM
ant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
For a long time you might be using desire to head toward this ideal that you see. Which in part for Tao becomes a path toward lessening the very desires that keep you going along the path? So as always there is paradox involved. But Lao Tzu did say there comes a time, when you drop the thoughts about the ideal and just kinda step out into the mystery without it.

Like being on a hamster wheel,and stumbling along to the final chapter.

Trial and error,fine tuning and process.
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  #24  
Old 16-07-2020, 02:59 AM
Brian100 Brian100 is offline
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Life is hard enuf as it is. . . so why would you want to fill your head with this stuff?
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  #25  
Old 17-07-2020, 10:46 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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because the only way out of a runaway mind is to let it think about itself.
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  #26  
Old 18-07-2020, 09:04 PM
Brian100 Brian100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
because the only way out of a runaway mind is to let it think about itself.


You mean a mind that hears too many useless thoughts? I have seen that before but I shut it down with the Jesus God.
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  #27  
Old 10-08-2020, 08:20 AM
Lucid Lucid is offline
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Why I am not Taoist:
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I know that Jesus is exactly who he said he is and I know that God sent him into this world we call Earth to accomplish a mission of salvation for mankind for the purposes of redeeming mankind back to God. I know that God is real, Jesus is real and Satan is real. I welcome any and all discussion regarding the truth of God's word and the message contained therein so long as it is in a sincere, good faith pursuit of the truth.
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  #28  
Old 28-12-2020, 08:42 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
well the TTC speaks much truth, but isn't the answer to everything.

For example there is this well known saying:

those who know don't speak
and those who speak don't know....

He he, that is a lot of words to use just to get to that last sentence.
But yeah, I suppose it is true, too many words can lead to the development of all sorts of isms. Getting too caught up in all those isms can lead one to become an ist. The problem with being an ist is that ists tend to get stuck in their isms, and have a hard time getting back out. Better to avoid getting hypnotized by those isms.

The Tao that can be ismed is not the true Tao. The sage is not an ist.
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  #29  
Old 28-12-2020, 09:58 PM
Hologram8 Hologram8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
He he, that is a lot of words to use just to get to that last sentence.
But yeah, I suppose it is true, too many words can lead to the development of all sorts of isms. Getting too caught up in all those isms can lead one to become an ist. The problem with being an ist is that ists tend to get stuck in their isms, and have a hard time getting back out. Better to avoid getting hypnotized by those isms.

The Tao that can be ismed is not the true Tao. The sage is not an ist.
really great and wonderful ~ spot on
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  #30  
Old 09-01-2021, 08:04 AM
Zzhang Zzhang is offline
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Very interesting reflection that I had never thought of before...
Thanks
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