Is the universe friendly or unfriendly?

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

BTW...R6...I love your quotes. Particularly Einstein's but Feynman's also good.Peace & blessings
7L

Fullers and Einstiens are really the same concept.


Fuller, in last book "cosmology" writes about his meeting with Einstein in 1920's. Fuller wrote a book called 4F Timelock and mentions Einstein in the book and the publishers said that Fuller your a nobody and mention the great Einstien in your book so cannot publish your book.


Fuller as them to asked Einstien what he thought, so later on Fuller gets invited to meet with Einstein. Fuller had stated in his book that misses Muprhys Horsepower is E-Mc^2.



Einstien wanted to Fuller to know that known what he had done had any practical down to Earth significance and fuller told him disagreed. Fuller was still a very young man then and did not mind speaking his mind even to a great man of intellect.


Einstien passed by Fuller some years later when Fuller was first inventing his geodesic dome 30's 40's and Einstien walked by it and stated 'interesting'. But By this time Fuller was not the young brash man he was at their first meeting so he said nothing.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Uma

Apparently the Universe runs on the high octane bliss of Consciousness.
I can't help thinking of this Big Guy who is just a kid who's been playing 8 hours of video games and is completely zoned out. I guess the ones who get zapped don't think it's friendly.

Hi Uma,

What you share got me thinking, it's not fun being zapped. For me though it is in what way(s) one may react or respond to having such happen.

If seeing everything being against you and one has no support system internally or externally, it can be a struggle.

If seeing things as being the support system to guide one, I feel this changes the outlook.

For me it has fluctuated through the years. Took some time to develop trust with in myself and with in others. Presently have softened and the zaps may sting, but better able to deal with them.

It is an on going practice. The difference is I don't feel alone in the journey so much and this gives me a center in which to rest/heal when needed. For I feel the support given.

[Moonglow]

Thank you all for the insights and responses. It helps widen the view.

[TrueCrazyLion]

I think that, if anything, it’s friendly. Just the overall vibe I get, which I’ve felt increasingly over time.

[JohnHermes]

[size="4"]"Don Juan explained that in the opinion of sorcerers, the universe is predatorial, and sorcerers more than anyone else have to take this into account in their daily sorcery activities. His idea was that consciousness is intrinsically compelled to grow, and the only way it can grow is through strife, through life-or-death confrontations.

"The awareness of sorcerers grows when they do dreaming," he went on. "And the moment it grows, something out there acknowledges its growth, recognizes it and makes a bid for it. The inorganic beings are the bidders for that new, enhanced awareness.

Dreamers have to be forever on their toes. They are prey the moment they venture out in that predatorial universe."

"What do you suggest I do to be safe, Don Juan?"

"Be on your toes every second! Don't let anything or any body decide for you. Go to the inorganic beings' world only when you want to go." - The Art Of Dreaming[/SIZE]

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by JohnHermes

[size="4"]"Don Juan explained that in the opinion of sorcerers, the universe is predatorial, and sorcerers more than anyone else have to take this into account in their daily sorcery activities. His idea was that consciousness is intrinsically compelled to grow, and the only way it can grow is through strife, through life-or-death confrontations.

"The awareness of sorcerers grows when they do dreaming," he went on. "And the moment it grows, something out there acknowledges its growth, recognizes it and makes a bid for it. The inorganic beings are the bidders for that new, enhanced awareness.

Dreamers have to be forever on their toes. They are prey the moment they venture out in that predatorial universe."

"What do you suggest I do to be safe, Don Juan?"

"Be on your toes every second! Don't let anything or any body decide for you. Go to the inorganic beings' world only when you want to go." - The Art Of Dreaming[/SIZE]

Hi JohnHermes,

Have not read any of the Conaneda(Don Juan) books. Been told they are very good.

Interesting excerpt. Will say the advice to be on one toes seems wise and practical.

There is talk I've heard at times to be vigilant. In some of my dreams I seem to travel to other places not of the "Earthly Realm" and come across some images that seem to call me to face my fears.

Other dreams seem to be sorting out the day and issues I need to address or are on my mind.

Both do seem to require me to pay attention and aware of what may come forth and what it may be actually showing me.

To see oneself as a sorcerer seems interesting. Perhaps an image or characterization presented to consider how we may have the power with in to create and change. But, as I feel it being presented, this can draw attention.

Just some thoughts.

[davidsun]

The OP brought to mind this line from The New Testmanent: "All things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

And this from The Bhagavad Gita: "To him who has conquered his lower nature by Its help, the Self is a friend, but to him who has not done so, It is an enemy."

Such 'perceptions' (conclusions?) stem from the fact (at least I think it is a fact!) that positive (in this case meaning beneficent in relation to others as an 'entity', i.e. in relation to Life -at-Large) intentions and behaviors 'attract' ('cause'?) positive (i.e. beneficent in relation to oneself) 'results', but the 'opposite' in the case of those whose intentions and behaviors are negative (negligent or maleficent) ... this is the Law of Attraction or Principle of Karma dynamic in action.

So what is called 'the Universe' (or Life-at-Large, or 'God') operates and consequently may and will (in the long run at least) be experienced as a 'friend' and/or as an 'enemy' depending on one's own motives and intentions towards 'It'.

Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." yadayada

Of course, the above references a general dynamic which operates in overall terms and and does not apply in exact/immediate quid pro quo fashion. "Let us [therefore] not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith." yadayada

From my book, Godspeak 2000:

Take heart, if you are one who subscribes to what is good. As times of want alternate with times of plenty, the crises engendered, though painful and upsetting to go through, are on the whole very creative. Attributed to ‘the hand of God’ by some and to ‘natural selection’ by others, a process of culling then takes place which, far from being random, is positively discriminating and therefore, in final terms, constructive.

Individuals and groups that are reciprocal and sharing emerge ascendant, resonantly reinforced by one another, despite general shortage, overcoming their difficulties. Those that are unresponsive and unrelated atrophy in isolation; unless they change for the better, they weaken and fail eventually. Those that are antagonistic and oppositional fare worst of all; their energy depleted by friction and their momentum destroyed by clashes and collisions, their creative thrust is halted and reduced to nullity.

With every denouement, asynchronous and discordant elements are deleted, while more cooperative and coordinated embodiments proceed forth, the degree of harmonious integration increasing as each new stage succeeds.

and

During periods of opulence, the impact of ... judgment and [concequent] response is not as clear-cut because attention is then focused on the excess that is available, and opinion and will are generally tempered by contentment. Selfishness and personal attainment are not strenuously objected to, often they are even encouraged and admired, because many then see nothing wrong with focusing on pleasing themselves and, because they feel there is more to be had, are inclined to be easygoing and accepting of others doing the same. However, as resources diminish and choices regarding their allocation become crucial, tolerance for excess and waste decreases, evaluation becomes more critical and interpersonal reaction, accordingly, more acute and intense. In proportion to how beneficent or detrimental one is perceived to be, one is then resolutely either endorsed and supported or rejected and opposed by others in one’s ken.

As the ill effects of ecosystemic deterioration become more assaultive and inescapable, the process progressively becomes more energized and all-encompassing. The impetus to identify and correct what has gone wrong intensifies to the point where all that is of consequence is examined and a referendum based on conscience is held. ‘Apparent’ words and deeds are scrutinized; underlying attitudes and intentions are clairvoyantly assessed. Not just gross unwholesomeness, charades of piety and legality are judged for what they are, as mores are seen to be mere ‘forms’ of expression and the spirit which gave rise to them is redistilled and clarified. Dialogue and debate lead to consensus and conviction. Spokespersons and exemplars emerge in all quarters. What is necessary and beneficial is earnestly espoused and advocated. What is wasteful and counterproductive is equally earnestly abhorred, and those who engage in such behaviors are censured and castigated. (Though we have clearly embarked on such enterprise,b much more is yet to be said and done on this score, in the current macrocycle.)

Consequences follow in increasingly rapid succession. Whether because they exclusively focus on enhancing their own or their own kind’s welfare or for some other reason, those who lack appropriate regard and concern for the developmental needs of others are identified as detractors from and traitors to Life. Simply called to honor conscience, confronted, and given a chance to change at first, those who obdurately remain violational are soulfully condemned soon thereafter. A significant portion of the yearning for conditions to improve is channeled into wishes for their comeuppance and elimination from Life’s arena. Such desires finally becomes so focused and, in combination, so intense that, personal privilege and power notwithstanding, that very train of events is psychospiritually impelled.

The demoralization and demise of those who don’t accede to and accord with the prescriptions of conscience is assured by their own apprehensiveness—they are simultaneously afflicted from within. Particularly when others around them increasingly suffer, because they then cannot escape knowing that selfish excess is unjustified and denying others their due is a 'sin', personal misgivings and anticipation of retributive misfortune overshadow their thoughts and feelings. Their fantasies become more troubled. Horrible happenings haunt their dreams. They keep imagining not obtaining what they want and losing what they already have.b More and more, what is strikes them as personally insulting. However much may actually be available to them, they experience what isn’t as a significant denial. A sense of incompleteness and insatiety dogs their heels. Feeling more and more alienated from others and less and less a part of Life’s flow, they find being alone and doing nothing ‘grand’ unpleasant and disquieting.

In conjunction with the effect of the psychospiritual reactions they evoke from others, such wretched thoughts and feelings psychospiritually operate to guarantee them consequences that are most unfortunate. In proportion to how callous and destructive they are, judgments and forebodings see to it that they become foci for what, to those who are naive, appear to be ‘chance’ accidents, ‘natural’ illnesses, ‘inadvertent’ errors in judgment and ‘unavoidable’ catastrophes. However hard they try, wherever they may be, those who are not aligned with Life’s greater expression suffer eventual ill fate as, in realms of Mind and Spirit, they accrue more and more negativity. One way or another, those who don’t lovingly do what they canb to advance our common cause go awry; if they don’t change for the better along the way,c irretrievably.

Life will not sustain their impetus. The energies of those who remain greedy, withholding and antithetical finally falter, as they engender antagonism from without and are inwardly debilitated by their own sense of sin. Instead of flowering to fruition, their creative thrust is thwarted and perverted. When storms eventually strike, their connection to Life is severed. At the end of each evolutionary cycle and beginning of a new one, such malcontents are excised from the field of thought and feeling that constitutes our species.

The converse holds true as well. The very same dilemmas and difficulties that overwhelm the ignorant and impede the unresponsive provide vital impetus to those who are inclined to become more understanding and constructive in relation to others around them. And the very same dynamic which proves disastrous to the adverse and the recalcitrant serves to reinforce and nurture those who choose to become more benevolent and collaborative.

Creative development is no chance happening: As suffering becomes more widespread, conflicts more severe and imbalance more glaring, those who are empathetic and caring seek to comprehend the etiology of surrounding circumstance and aim to intercede in ways that stimulate the development and exercise of healthy response-ability, facilitate creative problem-solving, and promote self-expression that is communally constructive. Knowing that our attitude is impartial and our purpose is to be contributive, that it is right and fitting we should succeed in such undertaking is something we single-mindedly think and whole-heartedly feel. Unconflicted thought‑feelings psychospiritually serve to propel us forward. Instead of getting derailed or sidetracked, we learn from mistakes and setbacks how to avoid pitfalls and overcome problems along the way. Immune to demoralization, no matter what the odds, we persevere with integrity.

As we conscientiously reexamine and reinterpret the truth, shells made of limited beliefs and shortsighted goals give way. Inner Intelligence bursts forth with transcendental perspective and unleashed vitality. Recognizing everyone else as a fellow participant and the whole as our very own, we ignore impulses and inhibit behaviors that are detrimental, choosing instead to enhance and express those that are beneficial to everyone. Enlightened by knowledge of the fact that each of us is an integral part of Life, we see through the specter of personal transience—instead of becoming embroiled in hate or getting caught up in greed or fear because we or others we care about may not have, and possibly may never get, what we or they personally want, we respond to crises creatively, deliberately acting in ways that make the most of That Which Is, the eternally reverberative I-Am-That-I-Am living in each and all.

[r6r6]

Moonglow--What the question posed in the OP brought to my mind isn't so much the universe evaluating us, but how one may evaluate the universe.

Obviously if you as 100 differrent people how the evaluate teh Universe/God, you will get at least 50 differrent answers. No surprise there when it comes to humans.

In this sense if seen as finite and everything will end, then how does this seem reflected in our interactions? Which seems just part of physical existance. Things change.

Spatial finite does not infer an ending in time. Universe/God is eternally existent occupied space. Simple not difficult to grasp.


If we someone told you that are our finite occupied space Universe/God is going to end, then you either will need to get more specific information from them or, on aligther funny note....run away from hem as fast as you can...

But,have also met those that worry about things ending and/or changing and have difficulty dealing with it.

Worrying about Universe/God is waster of time and effort.

Yes, I also see the macro Universal space as seeming to be infinite. For it is mysterious a endless in what it may create. Just my view point.

Space is infinite. Occupied space is finite. I'm not sure your clear on the differrence, just yet. Ive explained it on this forum and many others over the years in differerrent formats.


I saw a youtube the other night at work, and it has nice graphics that show a finite,occupied space Universe/God and 'nothing' outside of it.


Pretty simple to grasp but so many have such difficulty grasping this simple concept and Ive been seeing this happen for nearly 20 years now.

The gist that grabs my attention is how one perceives it to be seems to influence how one may interact with it. (Whatever it may be). Atleast I find true with in myself.

We only see parts of Universe/God not the whole of it and over time we continually new knowledge about it. We my someday gain all there is to know about it, however, they may be some aspects we cannot ever know,


Ex can gravityand dark energy be quantised or quantified. I doubt we will ever be able answer those two four questions. I dunno.

[meetjazz]

Probably ''the universe'' metaphor is used about the nature as such, our existence here, if is friendly or unfriendly. We certainly don't live in ''heavenly environment,'' I mean we can romanticize our natural environment, but in fact it contains both, a lot of beauty but also dead, misery, violence, destruction ...we can't just overlook this part of nature...even though this part of nature...was often used in the past and it's often used today, to justify or for passivity to all kind of misery, suffering, violence...in our society. For example, Buddhist mythology about existence, well in their view there gives six realms of existence; heavenly, demi-god, human, animal, ghosts, and hellish realms. We humans for them exist ''in the middle,'' in an environment where we are pulled in both directions, down and up...and in their view, we have a huge opportunity to go up into a more balanced, more peaceful,..environment, existence...or we can also go down the road. In fact, such view of existence is very common between different religions and spiritual beliefs, theosophy have a very similar view, even Christianity on the end have this ''human middle'' notion of existence, where we are between heaven and hell. Many different mythologies, for example old celtic religion or belief was ''the Middle Earth'', no this isn't from Lord of the rings, but the author from Lord of The Rings, J. R. R. Tolkien,..was very strongly inspired from Celitc mythology, who believed in middle earth,... Norse mythology is full of ''heaven and hell,'' well there is heaven call Valhalla..gnostics have a bit darker view about our existence here, in their view is our place a big mess..which we need to transcend but they also have this ''middle view'' we can go up or down...even if we go back to Plato..we have our Earthly existence painted as a place between shadow and light, well for Plato we are more in the dark and we need again to transcend into the light, but even by old Greek there gives this underworld, where we can come across Hades and he is the last guy you want to come across to, contra to Mount Olympus...we constantly come in our mythologies, regardless of the continent on the belief that we are in between...

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by davidsun

The OP brought to mind this line from The New Testmanent: "All things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

And this from The Bhagavad Gita: "To him who has conquered his lower nature by Its help, the Self is a friend, but to him who has not done so, It is an enemy."

Such 'perceptions' (conclusions?) stem from the fact (at least I think it is a fact!) that positive (in this case meaning beneficent in relation to others as an 'entity', i.e. in relation to Life -at-Large) intentions and behaviors 'attract' ('cause'?) positive (i.e. beneficent in relation to oneself) 'results', but the 'opposite' in the case of those whose intentions and behaviors are negative (negligent or maleficent) ... this is the Law of Attraction or Principle of Karma dynamic in action.

So what is called 'the Universe' (or Life-at-Large, or 'God') operates and consequently may and will (in the long run at least) be experienced as a 'friend' and/or as an 'enemy' depending on one's own motives and intentions towards 'It'.

Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." yadayada

Of course, the above references a general dynamic which operates in overall terms and and does not apply in exact/immediate quid pro quo fashion. "Let us [therefore] not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith." yadayada

From my book, Godspeak 2000:

Take heart, if you are one who subscribes to what is good. As times of want alternate with times of plenty, the crises engendered, though painful and upsetting to go through, are on the whole very creative. Attributed to ‘the hand of God’ by some and to ‘natural selection’ by others, a process of culling then takes place which, far from being random, is positively discriminating and therefore, in final terms, constructive.

Individuals and groups that are reciprocal and sharing emerge ascendant, resonantly reinforced by one another, despite general shortage, overcoming their difficulties. Those that are unresponsive and unrelated atrophy in isolation; unless they change for the better, they weaken and fail eventually. Those that are antagonistic and oppositional fare worst of all; their energy depleted by friction and their momentum destroyed by clashes and collisions, their creative thrust is halted and reduced to nullity.

With every denouement, asynchronous and discordant elements are deleted, while more cooperative and coordinated embodiments proceed forth, the degree of harmonious integration increasing as each new stage succeeds.

and

During periods of opulence, the impact of ... judgment and [concequent] response is not as clear-cut because attention is then focused on the excess that is available, and opinion and will are generally tempered by contentment. Selfishness and personal attainment are not strenuously objected to, often they are even encouraged and admired, because many then see nothing wrong with focusing on pleasing themselves and, because they feel there is more to be had, are inclined to be easygoing and accepting of others doing the same. However, as resources diminish and choices regarding their allocation become crucial, tolerance for excess and waste decreases, evaluation becomes more critical and interpersonal reaction, accordingly, more acute and intense. In proportion to how beneficent or detrimental one is perceived to be, one is then resolutely either endorsed and supported or rejected and opposed by others in one’s ken.

As the ill effects of ecosystemic deterioration become more assaultive and inescapable, the process progressively becomes more energized and all-encompassing. The impetus to identify and correct what has gone wrong intensifies to the point where all that is of consequence is examined and a referendum based on conscience is held. ‘Apparent’ words and deeds are scrutinized; underlying attitudes and intentions are clairvoyantly assessed. Not just gross unwholesomeness, charades of piety and legality are judged for what they are, as mores are seen to be mere ‘forms’ of expression and the spirit which gave rise to them is redistilled and clarified. Dialogue and debate lead to consensus and conviction. Spokespersons and exemplars emerge in all quarters. What is necessary and beneficial is earnestly espoused and advocated. What is wasteful and counterproductive is equally earnestly abhorred, and those who engage in such behaviors are censured and castigated. (Though we have clearly embarked on such enterprise,b much more is yet to be said and done on this score, in the current macrocycle.)

Consequences follow in increasingly rapid succession. Whether because they exclusively focus on enhancing their own or their own kind’s welfare or for some other reason, those who lack appropriate regard and concern for the developmental needs of others are identified as detractors from and traitors to Life. Simply called to honor conscience, confronted, and given a chance to change at first, those who obdurately remain violational are soulfully condemned soon thereafter. A significant portion of the yearning for conditions to improve is channeled into wishes for their comeuppance and elimination from Life’s arena. Such desires finally becomes so focused and, in combination, so intense that, personal privilege and power notwithstanding, that very train of events is psychospiritually impelled.

The demoralization and demise of those who don’t accede to and accord with the prescriptions of conscience is assured by their own apprehensiveness—they are simultaneously afflicted from within. Particularly when others around them increasingly suffer, because they then cannot escape knowing that selfish excess is unjustified and denying others their due is a 'sin', personal misgivings and anticipation of retributive misfortune overshadow their thoughts and feelings. Their fantasies become more troubled. Horrible happenings haunt their dreams. They keep imagining not obtaining what they want and losing what they already have.b More and more, what is strikes them as personally insulting. However much may actually be available to them, they experience what isn’t as a significant denial. A sense of incompleteness and insatiety dogs their heels. Feeling more and more alienated from others and less and less a part of Life’s flow, they find being alone and doing nothing ‘grand’ unpleasant and disquieting.

In conjunction with the effect of the psychospiritual reactions they evoke from others, such wretched thoughts and feelings psychospiritually operate to guarantee them consequences that are most unfortunate. In proportion to how callous and destructive they are, judgments and forebodings see to it that they become foci for what, to those who are naive, appear to be ‘chance’ accidents, ‘natural’ illnesses, ‘inadvertent’ errors in judgment and ‘unavoidable’ catastrophes. However hard they try, wherever they may be, those who are not aligned with Life’s greater expression suffer eventual ill fate as, in realms of Mind and Spirit, they accrue more and more negativity. One way or another, those who don’t lovingly do what they canb to advance our common cause go awry; if they don’t change for the better along the way,c irretrievably.

Life will not sustain their impetus. The energies of those who remain greedy, withholding and antithetical finally falter, as they engender antagonism from without and are inwardly debilitated by their own sense of sin. Instead of flowering to fruition, their creative thrust is thwarted and perverted. When storms eventually strike, their connection to Life is severed. At the end of each evolutionary cycle and beginning of a new one, such malcontents are excised from the field of thought and feeling that constitutes our species.

The converse holds true as well. The very same dilemmas and difficulties that overwhelm the ignorant and impede the unresponsive provide vital impetus to those who are inclined to become more understanding and constructive in relation to others around them. And the very same dynamic which proves disastrous to the adverse and the recalcitrant serves to reinforce and nurture those who choose to become more benevolent and collaborative.

Creative development is no chance happening: As suffering becomes more widespread, conflicts more severe and imbalance more glaring, those who are empathetic and caring seek to comprehend the etiology of surrounding circumstance and aim to intercede in ways that stimulate the development and exercise of healthy response-ability, facilitate creative problem-solving, and promote self-expression that is communally constructive. Knowing that our attitude is impartial and our purpose is to be contributive, that it is right and fitting we should succeed in such undertaking is something we single-mindedly think and whole-heartedly feel. Unconflicted thought‑feelings psychospiritually serve to propel us forward. Instead of getting derailed or sidetracked, we learn from mistakes and setbacks how to avoid pitfalls and overcome problems along the way. Immune to demoralization, no matter what the odds, we persevere with integrity.

As we conscientiously reexamine and reinterpret the truth, shells made of limited beliefs and shortsighted goals give way. Inner Intelligence bursts forth with transcendental perspective and unleashed vitality. Recognizing everyone else as a fellow participant and the whole as our very own, we ignore impulses and inhibit behaviors that are detrimental, choosing instead to enhance and express those that are beneficial to everyone. Enlightened by knowledge of the fact that each of us is an integral part of Life, we see through the specter of personal transience—instead of becoming embroiled in hate or getting caught up in greed or fear because we or others we care about may not have, and possibly may never get, what we or they personally want, we respond to crises creatively, deliberately acting in ways that make the most of That Which Is, the eternally reverberative I-Am-That-I-Am living in each and all.

Hi davidsun,

Thank you for your thoughts and insights.

Does go along with what was going through my mind when writing the OP.

Just adding a little of what comes to mind.

What you present brings to mind; Where I place my focus/thoughts seem to influence what I perceive and project out into the world.