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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 18-06-2022, 02:42 PM
movingalways movingalways is offline
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Some truths about the untruth of duality

You realize there is no separation between you, awareness, and what you are aware of when your thoughts about you are silent or absent. This is called nondual (or unity or oneness) realization.

What is also included in nondual realization is the realization that because it is you thinking about you that seems to divide or separate you into two contrasting or opposing worlds or realities, dualism is a belief, not a truth. And because dualism is a belief and not a truth, belief in dualism (and by extension, belief in the reconciliation or unification of two-unto-one) can be dropped (transcended).
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  #2  
Old 18-06-2022, 04:58 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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I have no intention to start an argument on this, but evidently your "dualism is a belief, not a truth" is a belief, not a truth, as well.

Even if you had a "realization" kind of experience, there is no way to prove it, even to yourself, that your experience wasn't the creation of your beliefs and expectations.

There are such "illuminating" experiences in all religions, including science and atheism.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #3  
Old 18-06-2022, 05:46 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movingalways
What is also included in nondual realization is the realization that because it is you thinking about you that seems to divide or separate you into two contrasting or opposing worlds or realities, dualism is a belief, not a truth. And because dualism is a belief and not a truth, belief in dualism (and by extension, belief in the reconciliation or unification of two-unto-one) can be dropped (transcended).
The meaning of this is not clear. It seems as if your intellect is over-complicating something very simple.

The intellect serves a purpose but it is concerned with the nature of duality through analysis and comparison. At some stage the intellect has to be surrendered.

The realisation of non-duality is a state of Being, not an intellectual understanding.

Peace
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  #4  
Old 19-06-2022, 11:21 AM
Greenslade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movingalways
This is called nondual (or unity or oneness) realization.
There are no non-Dual realisations because a realisation is an 'object' of consciousness, Duality is the 'distance' between an object of consciousness while non-Duality 'collapses' the 'distance'. Everything you perceive yourself to be, every belief and thought you have are 'objects' of consciousness that, collectively and with some more perceptions, is known as your ego. Yeah, and mine too. Duality is created by the differentiated consciousness of the ego, that's its 'job' and it has its purpose in our realities no matter what the Chinese Whispers say.

Strictly speaking, Duality and Dualism are two very different beasties. Duality is the 'distance' between the 'objects' and consciousness while Descartes' Dualism is two aspects of the same thing. Close enough. The Duality that's talked of in these forums is either Descartes, dichotomy ore false dichotomy. All very messy.

In a 'true non-Dual' state there is a complete collapse of the ego into the self and there is no sense of 'I'. No 'I am', no beliefs, no perceptions, no realisations. To the outside world you become dysfunctional, 'inside' there is no world either internal or external. Frankly I don't have the words to express it but there is no 'you', there is just awareness itself. There are no thoughts of 'Oneness', no Duality, no non-Duality, no realisations....

So while 'you're' in that state and you've achieved a state of total non-Duality, there's no 'I' to perceive "I am in total non-Duality." And while 'you' are not there your body is heading towards a shutdown.

The problem with Duality isn't Duality, the problem with Duality is one-dimensional thinking.

Last edited by Greenslade : 19-06-2022 at 12:55 PM.
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  #5  
Old 19-06-2022, 10:43 PM
Ewwerrin Ewwerrin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movingalways
You realize ...
... be dropped (transcended).
You always give good advice, but lets take this further and back it up with experience.

When you release thought, you also release self contradictory or resistant thought. The light of your awareness is allowed to flow and you realise the higher perspective, that is free from the lower one and its contradictions. Untill you find out that that higher less resistant perspective is a vibrational perspective that actually contains a far greater density of duality and will far less likely realise any possibility for any freedom from resistance whatsoever. Because the identification of that duality will become way more difficult, to them, but not to me. That is why there are variety of perspectives, so that people can help eachother.
The higher perspective is only relative to your allowance of your realisation of it. Furthermore, in every higher perspective you will realise that there is always a perspective that is even higher still. The least resistant perspective is always the one that conceals the duality most profoundly.

Duality is a lie in the sense that it is an insignificant truth. It is just the framework that allows for consciousness and focus to happen. But the framework is unavoidable to any consciousness that is forever energy motionally inseperable from the next.

So without duality, you will not realise to any degree the absolute nature of non-duality that governs all dualities beyond any becoming or change. And the recognition of the truth depends on how far you have recognized the lie, and vice versa.

The higher of a truth you will realise, the greater your awareness of all the lies will become. And it expands like that forever.

Your suffering will only yield more bliss and more bliss will only yield more suffering. And the absence of both will eventually fractalise into more suffering, because it is also based on the denial of both, and so the bliss of denial yields as much suffering as much as the suffering of the denial yields the bliss.

The stream of duality consciousness is infinite in all omnidimensional directions. Every non-capital god source is just a tiny little cog in the infinite machine. What makes it all one, even in the midst of infinite variety, is the fact that every single unique identity is equally dualistic from its counterparts. That is what unifies all beings. That is what makes all of creation family.

I cannot give you the answer, because you are not the only one who has been supporting those who conceal the truth. Nearly every single human unintentionally and well-meaningly does it, or atleast HAS done it, including myself.

The unconcealment requires an infinite and eternal embracement of duality. And it is therefor extremely corrupt and the greatest lie of all lies. And yet it is the only thing that can help one realise the greatest truth of all truths. Only to realise that there will forever be greater ones to be realised ofcourse. As always.

The realisation of the non-dual is forever relative.
If anyone realises an absolute realisation of non-duality, then all infinite and eternal existence would instantly stop existing, PRIOR TO ALL of its existence. It would stop existing even before it had any possibility to exist at all. Even the possibility would stop existing before it ever even had the chance of even possibly existing. Because linear time doesnt exist.

And that is why it cannot happen, because it has already existed. And so all uncreation will forever be relative.

Many teachers have been teaching that, but they have always been killed and they will always be killed. People don't want to experience a painful idea, that might actually potentially give them some relief from their suffering, because they think they are free from eternity. YOLO. When they are in hell, they will say "I will only burn one time." And when their skin regenerates, they will say again "I will only burn one time." And when their skin regenerates, they will say again "I will only burn one time." And when their skin regenerates, they will say "This is a different me. And I will only burn one time."

And on and on it goes to infinity and beyond. They are correct. What they are saying is the truth. But it is not free from the lie, you see. These dualities define all of our natures. That are forever expandingly inseperably fractal to infinity and beyond.

"God will protect me from the flames and heal me."
And so they will be healed forever. And the burning will never stop. Why? Because the desire for Non-Dual realisation cannot dissapear. It is the seed desire of all of infinite and eternally ever expanding creation.

And even tho it is infinitely painful to be eternally healed in the midst of all of that pain that lasts forever. It is forever MORE ETERNALLY intolerable, to resistantly "surrender" the seed desire. The seed desire is IRRESISTABLE. The weight of infinity backs it up. No one can carry the weight of infinity. You either let it crush you, or suffer the consequences of a temporary meaningless and insignificantly extended suffering that will never yield any benefit whatsoever, so it cannot last or become. That wont make a dent in the eternity of anything.

The desire for non-dual realisation is what governs all things. Every unique and individual expression of creation is made out of it. Its an eternal self similar expansion of infinite variety. Everything is made out of that desire for non-dual realisation.

And will you realise the non-dual once upon a time? Yes. But it will be a relative and temporary realisation forevermore. That is how creation is structured. Even the absolute realisation is relative. Because words cannot outweigh the absolute reality. Doesn't matter how many times you use the right words, it doesn't change anything. The consequences of every realised or unrealised frequency of consciousness cannot be avoided.

You cannot resist the blessings of it. It will not change anything. No matter how much you suffer your own resistance of it. You will equally continue to be propelled through the same ever expanding cycles of creation, consciousness, duality and relativity. Which are all the same thing, as all as one as all as one.

An infinite number of infinite universes.
An infinite number of finite universes.
A finite number of infinite universes.
A finite number of finite universes.


It's all the exact same thing. And the relativity of it is born out of the seed desire that is nourished and governed by the non-relative "Time Crystal". That is not a physical object nor is it a known non-physical source of all the known objects, YET. It can be more fully known and understood eventually. It also excludes consciousness. It is as nonsentient as one can possibly get and yet all source consciousness of all prime radiants and extensional universes stem out of it.

So ofcourse you will say that it is a lie, because there are infinite different versions of its truth. You can approach its truth from infinitely ever expanding directions. Forevermore. The closest and most all comprehensive approach I have found so far is the notion of the transcendant Superdeterminism. Where one stops becoming the dreamer of the dream, but rather merge evermore fully everexpandingly with the very unchanging absolute non-dual LAW that governs all dreams of all dreamers. And even then, you still just got an evermore relative ever expanding realisation of it. It's never gonna be an absolute realisation. You can never realise the absolute enough. It's simply infinite. Forever.

There are infinite paths, none of them better or worse than the next, all equally dualistic. Simply take one and go. Like your name: "Movingalways"
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  #6  
Old 20-06-2022, 08:58 AM
Greenslade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
You always give good advice, but lets take this further and back it up with experience.
How much actual experience do you have of any of this? How much actual experience have you had of non-Duality? Or is this all just a torrent of thoughts let loose?

As far as I can see, this is a mind exercise and the truth of Duality is that it's the mind that creates it. You're doing what so many Spiritual people do and so many things, you're cursing at it instead of understanding it and using it for your own benefits.

The 'truth' is that what creates Duality doesn't exist.
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  #7  
Old 20-06-2022, 12:55 PM
movingalways movingalways is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
The 'truth' is that what creates Duality doesn't exist.
Bingo! The mind doesn't exist so duality (and nonduality) don't exist.
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  #8  
Old 20-06-2022, 12:56 PM
movingalways movingalways is offline
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Ewwerrin, I appreciate your in-depth answer, I will respond after my breakfast date with my friend.
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  #9  
Old 20-06-2022, 01:16 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movingalways
Bingo! The mind doesn't exist so duality (and nonduality) don't exist.
You seem to be stuck in mind. In other words it seems to be an intellectual exercise on your part and I back that up by you dismissing non-duality as a thing of mind. In other words you view non-duality from the intellect. Just because It can't be intellectualized or verbalized doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In fact non-dualism posits it's all that exists. It's existence itself.
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  #10  
Old 20-06-2022, 04:36 PM
movingalways movingalways is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
Because the desire for Non-Dual realisation cannot dissapear. It is the seed desire of all of infinite and eternally ever expanding creation.
I no longer desire nondual realization. It came and it stayed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
Everything is made out of that desire for non-dual realisation.
Or, everything is made out of the innate desire or movement of spirit to finitely reveal (make light to itself) what is infinitely concealed (dark to itself) aka, the nondual realization. And yes, one could say that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
The seed desire is IRRESTIBLE
.
One of my favourite creation stories (or models of Self/I am) is the bible where the nondual nature of the spirit of God is revealed in Genesis 1 and then concealed in Genesis 2 all the way up until it is unconcealed in Revelation 22. Of course, it isn't until the veil of ignorance is lifted wholly in Revelation 22 that one is able to return to Genesis 1 and see its hidden truth.
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