The Depraved

Originally Posted by Molearner

Are we having confusion over the meaning of judgement ?

Well disagreement for sure. But that's normal right, no one thinks or believes the same. Someone posted Jesus went around judging others. I would not define what Jesus was doing in that way.

To me, Jesus, if he was one with God or the source, would be perceiving things as they are, he would know the truth and the way, so he was not forming an opinion or judgement when he said this:

“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

To me, Jesus was observing and stating a fact based on his seeing and direct perception. Jesus did not have to take time to form a judgment or make an opinion about what was right there in front of him. There was no gap in time for Jesus to "judge" or decide if those persons knew what they were doing or not. But someone else believes Jesus was judging there.

LUKE 23:34 KJ21
Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

That's fine if one believes Jesus went around judging others. To me that implies Jesus had an ego or was an ego. Basing things on his subjective reasoning and thoughts and opinions and conditioning.

I don't see Jesus as an ego or having an ego. I see Jesus as a consciousness grounded in truth, free of false identification or ego. He perceived the world and others how they were, as they were, no ego filters were there coming between him and direct perception. So to me, no he did not judge anything or anyone. He merely saw things how they were.

Some think Jesus judged others. Some also think Jesus had an ego. That's fine we are all individuals and no one thinks or believes the same.

But it seems odd if somebody believed Jesus judged and God does not. I guess that implies they don't believe Jesus was God. Which means they are not a Christian.

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

That's fine if one believes Jesus went around judging others. To me that implies Jesus had an ego.

I have pointed out various Biblical Verses which show Jesus judged others and must have had an ego to do so. Ego is extremely beneficial when used with wisdom.... Like a loving Father would do to His Children when He knows they are badly behaved and heading for trouble He judges/chastises them out of love not just to show His egoic superiority.

Souls or "conscious awareness" or "ME" have personalities. Each soul is a unique person or entity. Souls also have memory, understanding, knowledge, experiences, and all the rest! If I do good or bad, it's due to me with a big disclaimer!

DISCLAIMER: I am (temporarily) merged with a body and it's brain (creator of thought) and body mind and body memory. (consciousness or the soul also have these things in energy form, not physical form) To the degree I am "awake" or (true) self I am liberated from the self built upon this body and it's story and perspective. But heck, soul or me has a story too! And memory too like I said, though the perspective is different. One perspective is a prisoner of thought the other free from it, but then this is related to awareness which fluctuates and is like in constant flux or flow. One can have more or less of it. One can be in "awake" mode or in "asleep" mode. Or somewhere between the two and where we are in that can change in nano seconds. In fact one can go from zero to a million back to zero in seconds.

I'd suggest to throw away ego. It was never you in the first place nor does it add anything of value. The source of love and awareness or understanding/wisdom does not flow to self or consciousness from the brain or ego or thought. Love flows the other direction. Loves source is God or the source of awareness and consciousness itself. Love is an attribute of consciousness, not the brain. Now the brain and ego can produce attachment which can appear similar to love, but then you get those cases where someone ditches their partner for somebody else and someone gets killed. That is attachment there, ego brain based love, not divine real love. Divine love, love from the source. Love that is not self centered. Love that puts the other before the self. As the separate self is an ego idea. We are the other.

A trained well conditioned ego is like a trained dog that believes itself to be alpha. A dog that believes itself to be alpha is a dangerous thing no matter how well it may be behaving or how well it is trained or conditioned. The root of that dogs identity is where it sees itself in the pack. It's the same in human kind. If the identity is the conditioned habitual programmed self centered ego, one is going to produce conflict with somebody or something else sooner or later.

If one believes themselves to be the greatest, a master, woe to them that contradicts their self appointed greatness! Ego's are very defensive and contradictory and hypocritical but that's another subject. In all of that is a lack of awareness, of seeing the bigger picture. A lack of wisdom.

[Miss Hepburn]

That was like a treatise. Bravo, A.!

And of course Jesus had an ego, and of course it's necessary living here...it's not all bad. You're correct.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by sky123

I have pointed out various Biblical Verses which show Jesus judged others and must have had an ego to do so. Ego is extremely beneficial when used with wisdom.... Like a loving Father would do to His Children when He knows they are badly behaved and heading for trouble He judges/chastises them out of love not just to show His egoic superiority.

Sky123,

So ego is necessary for judgment ? Your examples of judgment I would view as actually being diagnoses. If the father(or doctor) reacts to behavior or sickness is this really driven in any way by their ego or is it driven by love and concern ? Egoic superiority is only a personal belief of the one with the ego……it is not intelligence, capability or expertise. As a matter of fact a big ego is more like a caution sign……beware this person takes no counsel.

"Remember that reluctance to meditate comes from the ego; it doesn't belong to the soul." Paramahansa Yogananda

"Our true personality has been concealed under the "disguise" of a false self, the ego, who we tend to worship in place of God." Thomas Merton - Trappist Monk

"The moment you become aware of the ego in you, it is strictly speaking no longer the ego, but just an old, conditioned mind-pattern. Ego implies unawareness. Awareness and ego cannot coexist." - Eckhart Tolle

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

And of course Jesus had an ego,

That is actually the answer to the question I asked in the thread: "why did Jesus do this?" But nobody ever said that and I didn't want to bring it up!

I liked this post as well: Had to shorten it a lot to two sentences but the whole post was nice to me.

Originally Posted by janielee

Ego is of the lower, limited mind thus... it will always be (ultimately) unhappy. The (idea) that ego-lessness means a devoid human with no cognition and individuality is a myth; one perpetuated by a lack of comprehension and understanding.."

There's some amazing posts in the threads about ego.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Sky123,

So ego is necessary for judgment ?

A sense of 'Self' is necessary to judge others, imo.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

A sense of 'Self' is necessary to judge others, imo.

The judgment is your own reaction creating fabrications of mind, and reaction perpetuates ego, so what you say is true, but in a different way.