The Depraved

[Morpheus]

Perhaps share something about God's grace with Busby, Annointed.
And our need for it.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by The Anointed

And IMO you are correct, without an observer, there is no universe.
May our God preserve you Morph.

The Anointed - this may interest you;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyu7v7nWzfo

Originally Posted by Busby

The Anointed - this may interest you;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyu7v7nWzfo

How does consciousness happen? Somehow in each of our 'CREATED' brains the combined activity of billions of 'CREATED' neurons each one a tiny biological machine is generating a conscious experience.

Watched it, and read many articles pertaining to consciousness, which are interesting, but IMO, it is only in observing the perceived physical realities that we can grasp the unseen spiritual true realities, and one of the erroneous claims by your chosen champions, appear to me, to suggest that consciousness ceases to exist when the body, of “skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc,” has returned to the universal elements from which it was created.

What they fail to realise is that after the death of the body, there remains, a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU, the mind, spirit, or consciousness, that has been imprinted into the universal life force or soul, which returns to ‘THE GREAT THOUGHT,’ [The collective consciousness of all that exists] from which it will be resurrected in this cycle, or the next cycle of universal activity.

Unless of course that mind which is the potential child of the Logos, in whose presence no flesh and blood can exist, is aborted and suffers the second death and is separated from the eternal soul, which is the end of consciousness for that entity, after which there is nothing but everlasting total oblivion.

As spoken by your chosen expert, who said; "And when the end of consciousness comes there’s nothing to be afraid of, because there is nothing."

[sky]

Originally Posted by The Anointed

As spoken by your chosen expert, who said; "And when the end of consciousness comes there’s nothing to be afraid of, because there is nothing."

Does 'Consciousness' have an end though, according to Siddhartha and some Scientists it doesn't

[Morpheus]

Then there is the, "Semi-Conscious".

[Gem]

I'm pretty sure Buddhist philosophy says consciousness is contingent with the senses and arises and passes away. The irony is, to know that, one must experience the arising and falling of consciousness. One example from the Satipatthana sutta: "Thus are formations; thus is the arising of formations; and thus is the disappearance of formations. Thus is consciousness; thus is the arising of consciousness; and thus is the disappearance of consciousness." Naturally the irony of awareness of passing consciousness gives rise to lots of convolution as scholars continue producing knowledge to remain relevant.

There is no scientific rationale for consciousness apart from hypotheses that it emerges from activity of the brain (comes from material interactions). That aligns with Buddhist views on contingent consciousness. The difference is, Buddhists claim material and consciousness are concurrent whereas material science would assume material precedes the emergence of consciousness, but because experience isn't necessary for biological survival, there is no known reason as to why experience exists (see 'the hard problem' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5DfnIjZPGw). Hence, some scientists posit that consciousness is a fundamental property of space time (could be be measurable), but that's not science per-se as much as it is their personal philosophy.

How does this relate to time?

In the Buddhist view consciousness is not prior to or giving rise to phenomena. These are mutually contingent and occur concurrently. Hence, no time frame in which it endures is necessary. It's impermanent and momentary.

In the scientific view something has to be fundamental and prior to maintain some semblance of causation. Indeed most religious or any creation narratives must assume an uncaused causer like God. Of course, the causal paradigms require quite a linear aspect of time

I personally like how the Buddhists do away with a necessity for time, but not the facts that there are only so many hours in a day and each moment of life is precious.

[Gem]

OK, weird. I thought I was on the Is Time Real thread.

Originally Posted by Gem

"Thus are formations; thus is the arising of formations; and thus is the disappearance of formations. Thus is consciousness; thus is the arising of consciousness; and thus is the disappearance of consciousness.

Thus is the resting period of Brahman=Logos, thus is the awakening of Brahman=Logos, “The two that are one, which is the essential divine reality of the universe, the eternal spirit from which all being originates and to which all being must return at the end of each period of universal activity.”

The eternal oscillating universe that expands with the Big Bang and disappears with the Big Crunch.

“Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all, the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The eternal singularity that manifests itself as a supposedly physical universe, before contracting back to the eternal singularity.

Consciousness awakening to consciousness at rest.

Peace to you Gem.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by The Anointed

The eternal oscillating universe that expands with the Big Bang and disappears with the Big Crunch.

I think the scientific method has to be a bit clunky and mechanical (because it is physical measurement based), and will tend toward a succession of events, but this mostly reductionist framework leads to a necessary identity even if that is some sort of mathematical form - a conceptual cosmology which is at least as old as Plato.

“Universe after universe..." Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122

The eternal singularity that manifests itself as a supposedly physical universe, before contracting back to the eternal singularity.

It seems we will eventually get to the question of, is there substance or not? Returning to a 'singularity' seem to me to retain notions of substance whereas I prefer the no-substance idea such as the dependent origins in Buddhism. I like how that pertains to notions of self as a construct of thoughts and feelings, and not self as an eternal substance or identical identity.

It makes judgement unreasonable, so people do depraved things, but no one is there doing them, so it's just sensible to avoid such people, but unreasonable to make any value or worth judgments. That puts me at loggerheads with Christainity because despite 'shalt not judge' the religion itself is inherently judgmental, and that judgment is said to be true.

As you say, in Buddhism there are 'immutable laws', but they aren't deemed by God, and unlike Deistic religions, there is no judgmental entity. The laws of kamma express how volition arises from ignorance to generate rebirth, and how insight into the nature of things brings wisdom, and liberation from the kammic cycle. There is no Buddha-person or personal God to help you or save you, nor is there 'you' in any identical sense.

Originally Posted by Gem

As you say, in Buddhism there are 'immutable laws', but they aren't deemed by God, and unlike Deistic religions, there is no judgmental entity.

A rebirth, is to be born again as you were in the previous life cycle, but reincarnation is totally different, the immortal soul is given a new body in which to climb the ladder of evolution once again, the old body and the old mind are destroyed.

When an endless cycle of rebirths is referred to, do you believe that every person who dies is later reborn as they were in their previous life, or reincarnated as a different life form?

What happens to all those who at the close of each cycle of universal activity have not attained Moksha or Nirvana, according to your belief?

Peace Gem.