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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

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  #21  
Old 22-04-2021, 03:19 AM
zinnat zinnat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
I am looking forward to your insights on the "various experiences during meditation
and the importance of stillness during meditation etc."
Yes, Of course.

I have gone through your thread and that is precisely why i mentioned your point here above.
I will take up your point very soon here in this thread. Please keep reading.

with love,
sanjay
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  #22  
Old 22-04-2021, 03:56 AM
zinnat zinnat is offline
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Let me resume from my basic premise about meditation-

It is all about reversing the default process of information/ knowledge flowing from conscious to subconscious.

In a single line, that all what the meditation is. So, the first question comes to mind, how can one do that!

Before understanding that, we have to remember that subconscious mind is many time more stronger than the conscious one. So, the most obvious way to reverse this process is to make conscious mind stronger.

Now, how can we do that!

Mind works in the same way as the physical body does. when we want to make any part of the body stronger, we try to use that body part more and more, and over the time, the muscles of that part becomes developed and stronger. We all see that with body builders. We have to do the same in the case of conscious mind too.

The very simple and perhaps the only way to do this is to focus the conscious mind on one thing continuously. That thing can be anything, a mantra, A picture, a thought, a sound, light or any thing else. The object of concentration does not matter much. From my personal experience i can say that without any hesitation.

*DELETED*

It is the same as one is doing cardio exercise. As we know that there are many types of cardio exercises like jogging, running, skipping, running stairs, burpees etc. They all are different types of exercises but their impact on the body is the same. They all burn fat and makes our heart stronger. The same is with the concentration. Irrespective of the focused object, all kinds on concentration give the same result. The differences comes only after certain stages, and we will discuss that later to avoid any confusion.

Technically speaking, the focused object may be anything, but for practical reasons, it is easier and more fruitful not to choose anything as an object which is being seen by the eyes. Again, the reason for that is our default mechanism of us being conscious. For a normal person, all the time he/she is awake, conscious mind pays the most attention to what we see with the eyes. The experiences of all other organs comes later. This is a natural phenomenon. During all awaken times, the consciousness resides in the eyes all the time, unless it is required to pay attention to other organs because of some important reasons. So, if we keep our eyes remain open during mediation/concentration, it would not help much because in that case it would be very difficult to concentrate the conscious mind on anything other than what is being seen with through the eyes . Mind will again and again come back to what we are seeing with the eyes. So, the only remedy is to keep the eyes closed and find something else to focus upon.

Many of us may themselves have experienced in their lives or seen others closing their eyes while thinking seriously on anything. That is quite natural. And, reason is precisely what i stated above, the default process of the conscious mind is paying attention to the eyes all the time. When we think seriously on anything, we force our conscious mind to focus exclusively on that thing. And, in order to do that it has to withdraw its focus from eyes and thus they close.

To understand this, i would like to put this into computer terminology. Think that the conscious mind has A certain RAM( Random access memory), Say 3 GB and, 2 GB from this is deployed all the time to eyes and rest 1 GB takes care of the rest of the body. But, when we force it to concentrate intensely and exclusively on one thing, that 1 GB spread all over the body becomes insufficient and that forces mind to withdraw permanent deployed 2GB Ram on eyes and use it to that issue. And, the only way for the mind to withdraw its focus from the eyes is to close them because as long as they remain open, the mind would have no choice but to focus on what is seen by the eyes.

I think that that would be enough for one post.

with love,
sanjay

Last edited by Miss Hepburn : 18-07-2021 at 10:51 AM. Reason: So inappropriate!
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  #23  
Old 22-04-2021, 06:12 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinnat
Ignoring you or anyone else is not intention. My only point is that conversation in such issues is that much clear so no one gets confused. All issues, irrespective of how complex they are, can be narrated in plain and simple language. There is no need of any kind of intellectual contraption.

Secondly, seeing Delhi as your location, i am assuming that you are also an Indian like me. I live at Jhansi (U.P) which is around 400 km south from Delhi.

with love,
sanjay
Ah! What I meant was that perhaps my post could sidetrack the flow of your sequential presentation, therefore ignore!

I’m also all for simple presentation but maybe I use metaphors since I’m a poet at heart. Actually, what I had said is straightforward, in as to my mind. Drop thought, retain awareness, exit doership, surrender and imbibe bliss, without memory imagery or anticipation and keep vaporising until lower and higher minds align with love in our heart. Anyway, please do go on and we can save all this for the Q&A at the end!

I’ve visited Jhansi many times on business. Not any longer. Quaint army Cantonment. Close to Khajuraho and other tourist spots.
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  #24  
Old 22-04-2021, 09:00 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinnat
It is all about reversing the default process of information/ knowledge flowing from conscious to subconscious.
In a single line, that all what the meditation is. So, the first question comes to mind, how can one do that!

Before understanding that, we have to remember that subconscious mind is many time more stronger than the conscious one. So, the most obvious way to reverse this process is to make conscious mind stronger.
I'm pretty much on track with what you're saying. Recalling your day each night is good to reflect on and helps you be more conscious. Being compelled by what happens in unconsciousness is a problem and becoming more conscious is beneficial.

I suggest that the object of concentration makes a difference, as some objects arouse passions, appeal to obsessions, are emotionally charged, and generally incite aversions and cravings, which is counterproductive to the purpose. Another issue that matters is if the object is already occurring, such as breath, or if the meditator generates the object, such as mantra. That makes a difference in the sense that the former is non-volitional (just observe), and the latter volitional (make it happen).

Last edited by Miss Hepburn : 22-04-2021 at 11:50 AM. Reason: As Admin requested - reduced quote
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  #25  
Old 22-04-2021, 11:16 AM
A human Being A human Being is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Another issue that matters is if the object is already occurring, such as breath, or if the meditator generates the object, such as mantra. That makes a difference in the sense that the former is non-volitional (just observe), and the latter volitional (make it happen).
I'm thinking it boils down to temperament and personal preference as much as anything, I don't think one method is necessarily inherently better than the other (I've personally tried mantra meditation but wasn't really feeling it, I prefer to just observe the breath instead because it feels less contrived to me - but that's not to say that mantra meditation can't be effective for others).
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  #26  
Old 23-04-2021, 03:10 AM
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@ a human being ... the optimal mantra, as needed by us may be directly known, in stillness, directly from the universe. when we release our self, unshackling consciousness from past conditioning, we should, in my view, let go of memorised mantras and techniques as well, as they all are rooted in lower mind.

as we too disappear, metaphorically speaking, mantras that are needed to hold our attention through our varying states of oscillation through waking and sleeping, are automatically cognised unmistakably. ultimately, the mantra melds with the inner sound current, which is subtly at play in an unbroken continuum within.

all techniques appear useful to balance and focus to start of with, like a tripod on a bicycle, until we simply flow automatically, without aids. it is our burning yearning to rekindle our own divinity within, on a moment to moment basis, all moments entwined, that enables God cognition in both void and all manifestation, without limited doership. as long as there is a seeker seeking, identity (ego) is manifest as a blockage.

it is not easy to wave away conditioning. yet, we may witness it with nonchalance. for example, what is ohm (ॐ) mantra to a Hindu, may be Amen to a Christian or Ala to a Muslim. yet, we are none of these structured man made identities.
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  #27  
Old 23-04-2021, 03:44 AM
zinnat zinnat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I'm pretty much on track with what you're saying. Recalling your day each night is good to reflect on and helps you be more conscious. Being compelled by what happens in unconsciousness is a problem and becoming more conscious is beneficial.

I suggest that the object of concentration makes a difference, as some objects arouse passions, appeal to obsessions, are emotionally charged, and generally incite aversions and cravings, which is counterproductive to the purpose. Another issue that matters is if the object is already occurring, such as breath, or if the meditator generates the object, such as mantra. That makes a difference in the sense that the former is non-volitional (just observe), and the latter volitional (make it happen).
Gem,
As you have noticed, i already mentioned that the object of concentration makes a difference but not in initial stages.
What one needs in initial stages?
Practice and forming a habit of concentration. As it is new thing for starters thus it becomes somewhat easy for the practitioner to concentrate on such a subject which is familiar to him/her, instead of totally new thing. So, it helps to some extent initially. One can always change the object after learning how to create and maintain concentration.

with love,
sanjay
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  #28  
Old 23-04-2021, 03:51 AM
zinnat zinnat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A human Being
I'm thinking it boils down to temperament and personal preference as much as anything, I don't think one method is necessarily inherently better than the other (I've personally tried mantra meditation but wasn't really feeling it, I prefer to just observe the breath instead because it feels less contrived to me - but that's not to say that mantra meditation can't be effective for others).

Yes, you are right. As we all are different to some extent thus it is quite possible that what method is working of one may not work of others. But, if one keeps trying, sooner or he/she automatically finds the way how to finetune the things.

The only thing which is required is intention to carry on. If one does have that, everything else falls in place almost by default.

with love,
sanjay
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  #29  
Old 23-04-2021, 04:47 AM
zinnat zinnat is offline
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As i have said in my OP, there is too much confusion around about meditation and related issues like mind, consciousness and soul etc. What exactly are these things, how are they related to each other and how they work. The problem is we cannot understand meditation without understanding these pertinent things in the first place. We have to get the basics right in order to manifest clear understanding. So, i am going into the details of all that before touching the methodology of meditation.

Contrary to what is generally believed, humans are not a singular entity but a three fold one. The innermost ingredient is consciousness, then it is wrapped by soul and then by physical body. Thus we are three folded entity. The soul is not consciousness. All of our three folds are made of different matter. Or, in other words we can say these three correspond to three different dimensions.

The consciousness is eternal and unchangeable. It does not do anything but just witness or feel whatever is happening to outer two bodies. As it is eternal thus it knows all, right from the its origin till now But it cannot do anything about it. The next layer is soul which is just like outermost human body but made of different matter which is subtler than our matter. Not only body but it also has its own mind. What we call subconscious is nothing but soul's mind. Then comes the outermost layer which is human body, made of most crude form of matter which has its own mind too- conscious mind.

The important thing to understand here is that the soul is not eternal. Though it is made of different and subtler matter thus improved version of human body, but still not eternal. It takes birth and dies just like human body but its life span is very large in comparison to ours, so large that for all practical purposes, we may call it eternal but not truly eternal in its strict sense. It feels pain and pleasure just like us. What we consider gods(Not the God) or higher supernatural entities, as mentioned in almost all major religions, are nothing but souls freed or not wrapped from human wrap. In other words, we can say that a god resides in each and every human.

Then comes consciousness. As i said above it is eternal and unchangeable but not a doing entity. It does not do anything, not even thinking but just feels. It does not have any mind on its own but permanently connected to soul and human minds. To be more precise, mind is that part or rather anomaly caused in consciousness though separated thus it is also eternal like consciousness but unlike it, mind is a doing entity and does all the thinking. Because of being eternal, and also having its default nature of thinking, it never stops thinking, no matter how hard we try. Its this very nature cannot be undone by any effort or means. The only thing we can do to tame it, is to keep it engaged in something.

And, that is precisely what meditation is.


The details are still not complete but the post is getting too long to be comfortable for the viewers so i will complete pending details tomorrow.

with love,
sanjay
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  #30  
Old 23-04-2021, 08:46 AM
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Great stuff Sanjay! Waiting for the meaty part ... :)
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