The Depraved

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by Gem

I guess it hearkens back to Socrates' "I know that I know nothing".

That's what him Mum told him, scolding the young Socrates for yet another misdemeanor. Later on he realised she was right

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Gem

It seems to me there is no reasonable inference such as "There is awareness, ergo I am aware, ergo I exist". The self referential statement can actually be reasonably inferred.

I meant cannot be reasonably inferred.

[Gem]

I suppose this means that self-inference and notions of identical identity are fundamentally unfounded, and believing such to be true is a delusion.

That offers a perspective that we can say there is morality and immorality at least according to human values (though I'm not a strict moral relativist personally), but there are actually no grounds to say this or that person is depraved.

This perspective contradicts the Christian narrative surrounding a Judgmental God - like Judgment Day and so forth. In this perspective there is no-one there to be judged. However, this doesn't contravene principles such as 'you reap what you sow'. Of course if I plant metaphorical corn I won't get pineapples. I you plant the bitter seeds you get the bitter fruit and so on. It just suggests that cause and effect does not necessitate an identical identity that causes effects and is consequentially affected.

Socrates "I know that I know nothing"

Which means he knows something, that he knows nothing.

Any assertion like that Socrates one shows you are just a confused ego.

Now when the ego stops claiming it knows something, or that it knows nothing, when one just is, what is is self evident. No word or assertion is needed.

We are a point of perception, perceiving sensory data, and internal sourced data as well, body sensations, pleasure or pain from the body and brain, thought, mind, all of that is perceived.

All the mystics are getting at is one can potentially have the point of view of the perceiver and not what is perceived. And according to these mystics, the Christian ones since that is the religion we are posting in, what we find is a profound peace, and love, and oneness with everything and everyone.

Originally Posted by Gem

there are actually no grounds to say this or that person is depraved.

We are conscious awareness according to this philosopher. Myself. And the general theory is we are a conscious awareness that has falsely identified with this human animal body and it's mind as self. But we are not the body and it's mind, we are just merged with it until we are not at the death of this body.

Conscious awareness, unblemished, not identified with what is not itself, is one with everything. It has it's own aspects and attributes (of God or the source of conscious awareness) So one can see what the depraved would be. It would be conscious awareness that has lost itself in the lowest natures and emotions of this animal body and it's mind.

Originally Posted by Gem

This perspective contradicts the Christian narrative surrounding a Judgmental God - like Judgment Day and so forth. In this perspective there is no-one there to be judged.

I see the Christian concept in line with the Eastern one as well, karma. Don't matter if one imagines a God person as the source or some indifferent force like karma. Conscious awareness has a will. As it grows in understanding and intelligence and awareness, it naturally frees itself from associations from lower energies in the body etc.

There's all kinds of laws at play which we are unaware of. It's not like, oh you were a murderer so God will do this to you as a punishment. It's much more complicated than that. Everyone is connected. Conscious awareness is like a spider web of connections. What you do to someone else you do to yourself or God, the totality, as Jesus said:

MATTHEW 25:40
‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me.

The web of consciousness awareness does not tolerate disharmony so it will seek to "fix" disharmonious "atoms" of conscious awareness.

Jesus was said to be God and he did not judge anyone. But the Godhead, the totality, yea that is going to put you where you need to be to evolve. And give you experiences you need to evolve.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

Socrates "I know that I know nothing"Which means he knows something, that he knows nothing.

Your argument makes infinite regress fallacy. I know I don't know that I know I don't know that I know I don't know forever. In these cases you can just stop at the first one because the rest o the chain is repetition of the first statement

Socrates made the statement in context with widsom, how you don't need to know much to be wise, and a very learned man can be an utter fool (though Soc did not claim to be wise either). This abstractly reflected on the Athenian hierarchy in which the learned held high station and directed society on their knowledge with a lack of wisdom. It also reflected on his ethical principles, and how he couldn't uphold his morals and survive in Athenian society.

I'm sure old Soc appreciated how the irony serves as the point.

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

Jesus was said to be God and he did not judge anyone

Are you sure ? I could personally Post many Biblical Verses where He did but I'm sure anyone interested could find them easily themselves....
Jesus told the Pharisees, “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?” Matt. 23:23.

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

Socrates "I know that I know nothing"

Actually this phrase is not one that Socrates is recorded as saying

Originally Posted by Morpheus

So, people like ####, and #### insist there is no sin in humanity. We are among the depraved, no matter what your ego tells you.

That's a beautiful true teaching of Christianity to me. No one is perfect. We are all sinners. Only God is not. We surrender more and more of ourselves. Let go and let God and that is our salvation.

2 TIMOTHY 1:14 ~ ESVUK
By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you.

Mark 10:18
New International Version
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good except God alone.

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

That's a beautiful true teaching of Christianity to me. No one is perfect. We are all sinners.

In your opinion