Zen Anybody

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Nisargadatta Maharaj has been quoted as saying something similar: "It is impossible to establish order in this world" ... and yet people keep trying.

I am reminded of the saying:" It's like herding cats".......

[sentient]

Herding cats would be enough to send one into meltdown …
Or like trying to create order for ‘black fellows’ or ‘injuns’ for that matter … not realizing that order already exists in the Universe, though not in a way it is commonly understood.

I don’t exactly know what I am saying here, but trying to herd cats is like ignoring the elephant-in-the-room or call it ‘enlightenment’.
Ignoring the basic ground of Totality within which the cats and the (need for) herding happens (in a tunnel vision).

Then when you add that everyone in the room has their own ideas and ideals (tunnels), how the cats should be herded into and what particular order – what an overwhelm! Like entering into “The Kingdom of the Confusion of Tongues” ….

Reminds me of a book, I haven’t read for years:
https://epdf.pub/queue/orderly-chaos...principle.html

According to the mandala principle, a prominent feature of tantric Buddhism, all phenomena are part of one reality. Whether good or bad, happy or sad, clear or obscure, everything is interrelated and reflects a single totality. From the perspective of the mandala principle, existence is orderly chaos. There is chaos and confusion because everything happens by itself, without any external ordering principle. At the same time, whatever happens expresses order and intelligence, wakeful energy and precision. Through meditative practices associated with the mandala principle, the opposites of experience - confusion and enlightenment, chaos and order, pain and pleasure - are revealed as inseparable parts of a total vision of reality.

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sentient
This made me laugh.

My brother is a shaman – no I’m joking…. Or maybe I’m not ……
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[Joe Mc]

Form is only Emptiness
Emptiness Only Form - Heart Sutra

"Truth is an arrow
And the gate is narrow
That it passes through "- Bob Dylan

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13–14, NASB)

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[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 964 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Form is only Emptiness
Emptiness Only Form - Heart Sutra

Of course, and Jesus also reportedly said: "I (form) and the Father (formless) are one and the same". Truth is Truth though often expressed in different ways.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

This made me laugh.
My brother is a shaman – no I’m joking…. Or maybe I’m not ……

You lost me there.
Or do you refer to: “as futile as herding Shamans”?

The New Age witch-hunts mainly arose alongside the New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans – by the ‘new and educated’ (in Western ways) injuns as far as I can see it.
(2 sides of the same coin).

Though they do have a point, I think real shamen see them both as New Age (Western assimilation) distortions.
So let them fight & herd amongst themselves holding on to the illusion of opposites.

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sentient
That's alright.
I guess it just reminded me of herding cat and real medicine people I've met.
The wannabe will tell you they are the real deal.
The real will let you figure it out.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 967 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

The wannabe will tell you they are the real deal.
The real will let you figure it out.

I love what you just wrote. It resonates completely with my own observations.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

sentient
That's alright.
I guess it just reminded me of herding cat and real medicine people I've met.
The wannabe will tell you they are the real deal.
The real will let you figure it out.

That just reminds me of the two very different ways Indigenous and Western kids are taught.

Western kids are taught to be proactive (if that is the right word) and ask a lot of questions.
Indigenous kids are taught to silently watch / listen and absorb.

The Western system in the old days used to teach plants and animals as entirely separate categories, for example - and not see them as inseparable/interconnected/integral parts of any given eco-system.

Western system compartmentalizes everything.

Say you are a teacher talking about Platypus.
Western kids follow your words and gather data attentively …

Platypus
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Monotremata
Family: Ornithorhynchidae
Genus: Ornithorhynchus
Blumenbach, 1800
Species: O. anatinus
Binomial name: Ornithorhynchus anatinus

As if this told you what a platypus is.

Indigenous kids, first and foremost check if the teacher has actually ever seen a platypus, connected with it … before dishing out these categories. If not – what does this teacher pretend to know.
Secondly. Is the teacher just delivering data separate from the class or does the teacher connect to each and every student? If not – why bother listening to him.

I don’t know if I am explaining this difference well.

You go out in the field.
Spot a bird, orchid (whatever) name it, categorize it, tick the box and you have covered it, data rulz.

Whereas Indig. way is silently attuning to the totality of the environment in the now and if something comes out and in your way, then you elaborate because the connection-in-the-now is there to speak about it …

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[sentient]

Ranting on and on …

One cannot teach “Tuning into Totality” as a “Reality Orientation” with data, but by silent means, as an example of this ‘Spatial Silence’.

The description of ego as a “separate-self-identity” is often used, but the environment which caters for or validates it is ignored or is not seen through.

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Sorting fake shamans from genuine ones …
Went to a fake shaman meeting (had to see this!):
https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...3&postcount=40

I think it is OK to represent a form of Siberian shamanism with a Saami lineage, but these two Brits claiming to be Saami … was like come on, pull the other one! How can you be Saami, when you are not one, when you have never even been to Lapland?!
But the group members did not even blink, they just fully accepted the data they were presented with as truth to believe.

Still, my journey was good. It validated which Moiety I belong to.
It is the Bear Moiety:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e3/ca...7eec64c676.jpg

Once in my journey, the Bear took me to it’s “Spirit releasing Tree”, but it did not permit me to use that tree – instead the wind whisked me away … that tree used for the Bear ceremonies only belongs to the Moose/Elk clans.

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I just got so very, very angry and frustrated when the (AIM supported) ”fraud squad” claimed my friend to be a fake.

It wasn’t enough, that he is a son of a very well known (famous) injun, but because of his partner, he became a Toltec expert. This was wrong in the eyes of the fraud hunting Nazi Party.

Like GOD! Hadn’t they ever met him through journeying and experienced how the most outstanding ”energy signature” of his being is Amerind!!! Sheesh - the "enery-field- signature" simply cannot lie - so how can they claim the opposite!!!

NO. Nowadays, you need to validate yourself through Western data knowledge means. This is a real worry.

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