Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #361  
Old 02-01-2025, 04:10 PM
Ewwerrin Ewwerrin is offline
Suspended
Master
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 2,603
  Ewwerrin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldcup7
The Truth from the Non-duality understanding is that identity with limited form is a mistake, and the True nature is Infinite, unlimited.
Who says that there exists such a thing as a limitted form?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldcup7

Pure Selflessness is without attachment to form. Just Being. And yes, Pure Love.
Without attachment to what form?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldcup7
The Whole Truth from the Non-duality understanding is that selfishness is illusory. There is only the Limitless.
Now you are exchanging the word selflessness with the word Limitless. Implying, that you believe that your self is a limitation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldcup7
One may think there is a me and others, and that one seems closer to Truth than another. But that's the play of the Limitless assuming limited form.
What has the truth got anything to do with limitation?
And how is a me and you limitted?
And which limitation is the play of the limitless?
Reply With Quote
  #362  
Old 02-01-2025, 04:20 PM
Ewwerrin Ewwerrin is offline
Suspended
Master
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 2,603
  Ewwerrin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_A_S_G
What's the one defining ...
... not the many aspects of experience.
If your consciousness is literally the same consciousness of others, then why are you only experiencing your own consciousness?
Reply With Quote
  #363  
Old 02-01-2025, 05:00 PM
Maisy Maisy is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 2,399
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
If your consciousness is literally the same consciousness of others, then why are you only experiencing your own consciousness?

Seems to me words and sentences and phrases can mean different things. Like I could say, "I love this restaurant. The taco's are always the same. They're great!" It's not that I am saying the taco I got today is the same taco I got last week, I am saying they are made the same and taste the same.

Somebody could ask me, "How was work today?" and I could answer, "Oh the same as everyday." I am not saying there is only one day, I'm saying my work day is pretty much the same everyday. I do the same thing everyday.

If I say I have the same consciousness as you, I am not necessarily saying we have the same one. I am saying they are the same thing. Like if we both had the same electric bike. I could say mine is the same as yours. Every human being is an awareness or "consciousness" that experiences things. Like how a XYZ camera I have is the same one you have. But then we point our cameras at different things and take pictures of different things. Also maybe my camera is all beat up from taking it in a storm.

Even though we are all the same thing, awareness, we do different things with it, with ourselves. One awareness can watch horror movies all day. Another awareness can help the homeless all day. Another awareness can go for a walk on the beach with a friend. Even though we are all the same thing, my awareness is the same as yours, we have choices we can make that alter our experience. We are also in different physical bodies living with different circumstances.
Reply With Quote
  #364  
Old 02-01-2025, 05:33 PM
Maisy Maisy is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 2,399
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_A_S_G
If there's a real self (you) and a bunch of real not-selfs (others) in the context of mind and body isn't that separation?

Is there nothing in your experience that unifies that (apparent) separation?

Oneness has different meanings. Like imagine a football team where everybody is only thinking of themselves. So maybe somebody doesn't try to catch a ball as they know they will be tackled hard. Then imagine a team where they are one, united in their quest to win at any cost. Then one takes a hard hit for the team. Imagine a husband and wife working as one for the same goal, to own a house. So they both work hard and make sacrifices for that goal. They both save money. Another husband and wife make not be as one, they could be selfish. So while one is working hard to save for a house they other is spending money on designer clothes.

You and me exist. That's a fact for me. Some can play around with ideas they deny that though. One can play around with any beliefs they want. But I believe there's a me and you. Oneness is not about me being you. To me it's about us being one, in perfect harmony. Zero conflict between us. If you feel strongly one belief and I feel strongly the opposite belief, we are in conflict. If neither of us have any beliefs, we are in harmony.

To take it a little deeper, you are me could have different beliefs and conditioning, so one may assume we would be in conflict, but if both me and you ignore our beliefs and conditioning, transcend them in the moment, we are one. The other thing I have said before is "oneness" also is describing an experience where one is living and being non-conceptual. Completely liberated from their own mind and thought stream. In that experience in no way do I think you are me. I am more aware of reality and not less. Also I am not thinking at all! Thought is word based and conceptual. Me and you are words. This is the experience that cannot be talked about as it is an actual experience and perception. It's real. It's a real experience and while this experience exists no words or conceptual reality is interfering with the actual reality. The reality that exists if we are there or not. The reality as others have posted that we are not "coloring." Our mind is not interfering in it at all. Not because we don't have a mind, but because we are transcending it. Choosing to not have it be a part of now. This takes a great deal of awareness and energy. It does not happen by itself. It takes a self that is able to transcend what is not itself but is usually believed to be.

This is not about belief at all. It is not about if me and you actually exist. That's thinking and conceptual stuff. It is trying to alter "now" through conceptualization, though ideas and beliefs. One does not have to accept some idea or belief, like there is no me and you. One will never get a non-conceptual experience through the mind. One has to transcend mind. The world does not change in enlightenment as many teachers have said. The mountain is still the mountain. There is still you and me. But my experience of "this" and whatever is present in it completely changes if I am transcending mind. You are no longer in conflict with me in any way. What is the "me" if I have transcended my thought stream and have transcended every belief and idea I have?

I'd also add this is not a ending of knowing and knowledge. In fact it takes more knowledge and knowing to transcend mind. More awareness, not less. More understanding. Thought is not the self and never has been. An "ego" imagines to be thoughtless is to be a vegetable. It's the opposite. But to an awareness or consciousness that views everything through thought, it will always try to "imagine" what things are. It wants everything spelled out in language and words, as concepts and beliefs. It wants to say this is this. In words.

You and me are words and concepts and we are not the issue. The issue is where my attention is. On what am I including in this now? What am I including as me? What is now if I am not focusing on anything internal? If I am like an empty cup. Without a goal or desire. Not imagining myself as somebody or something through language. Not on a journey, not seeking some other thing or state or experience.
Reply With Quote
  #365  
Old 02-01-2025, 05:37 PM
Goldcup7 Goldcup7 is offline
Ascender
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 851
  Goldcup7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
Who says that there exists such a thing as a limitted form? ... Now you are exchanging the word selflessness with the word Limitless. Implying, that you believe that your self is a limitation?
Indeed, there is no limited form. No limited 'who' who says so. And no attachments too.

The Selfless and the Limitless are the same one. No limited self. No limitations in Truth. No me and you. Just Indivisible Infinity. Not so hard to imagine. Just drop the belief of limitation.
__________________
It is what it is.
Reply With Quote
  #366  
Old 02-01-2025, 05:42 PM
J_A_S_G J_A_S_G is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 1,267
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
If your consciousness is literally the same consciousness of others, then why are you only experiencing your own consciousness?
What I'm saying is there's not your consciousness and my consciousness, just a perception of being conscious, and that perception of being conscious is an illumiation of your mind and my mind by the Impersonal. Your mind knows the experience illumined in your mind and my mind knows the experience illumined in my mind. Both minds also 'know' that illumination much like your body knows the Sun by the very fact it warms it. It knows the warmth has a non-local source.
__________________
JASG AKA JustASimpleGuy
Reply With Quote
  #367  
Old 02-01-2025, 05:59 PM
Maisy Maisy is offline
Master
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 2,399
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_A_S_G
Is there nothing in your experience that unifies that (apparent) separation?

Separation is a concept. It's not real. All that exists for every single consciousness is an experience of now. Now an experience of now could be 10 other people attacking me! Am I separate from anything there? No I am a part of everything there. Those 10 attacking me are a part of my unified now. If I was sperate from them they could not attack me. The now is an experience. I am that which experiences. If I run away from the 10 attacking me, fly to another country, hike 100 miles to a cave far away from every human being what has changed? Nothing I am still the same me having an experience.

One experience is better than the other and that's why I moved from where the 10 were to this cave! We can do that. Use our intelligence and knowledge and awareness to create better experiences or to make our current situation better.

We are never separate from anything in our experience. Experience is a unified one. The word "separate" means to divide. We can only divide with words. How can we be separate from an experience we are having? How can we be separate from anything in our experience?

I am a point of perception and experience. I can never be separate from anything in my perception and experience.

Separation is a concept or mental idea. It's not real. Like say I imagine you and me are separate. That's only true as an idea or concept. If I am imagining a you how can I be separate? If I was separate "you" would not be in my mind. The "you" there is an image or concept.

All there is or will ever be is an experience of the now. We play a role in what is included in the now. Not always, but sometimes to some degree. A spiritual path is about what to include in now experience that is optional.
Reply With Quote
  #368  
Old 02-01-2025, 06:05 PM
J_A_S_G J_A_S_G is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 1,267
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maisy
What is the "me" if I have transcended my thought stream and have transcended every belief and idea I have?
The same 'you' that's already transcendent. The Impersonal masquerading as the personal. This is what I'm getting at by saying it's right here and now in experience but we don't notice, why I keep pointing to experience and its one common aspect. When noticed the paradigm of reality being some construct of time, space and matter/energy kind of crumbles. At least it did for me.
__________________
JASG AKA JustASimpleGuy
Reply With Quote
  #369  
Old 02-01-2025, 06:37 PM
J_A_S_G J_A_S_G is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 1,267
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maisy
All that exists for every single consciousness is an experience of now.
Bear with me. I'm just trying to divine the unity in all this.

We're conscious of the Now and thus experience or we're conscious of experience and thus the Now. Either way, same thing. Any difference between the past, the current and the future Now is the experience contaiend therein. The same consciousness that is conscious of the past Now is the same consciousness that is conscious of the current Now is the same consciousness that is conscious of the future Now.

No matter how I slice or dice it the unity always seems to come down to consciousness/awareness.

I'm equally comfortable exchanging the Now for Consciousness and instead of saying all experience appears in Consciousness saying all experiences appears in the Now. Then instead of saying I'm Consciousness I'd say I'm the Now.

It's the Infinite Impersonal, however we label It, and it's right in the midst of our experience.
__________________
JASG AKA JustASimpleGuy
Reply With Quote
  #370  
Old 02-01-2025, 10:55 PM
Ewwerrin Ewwerrin is offline
Suspended
Master
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 2,603
  Ewwerrin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldcup7
Indeed, there ...
... imagine. Just drop the belief of limitation.
Thanks for explaining this, but... why are you calling everything limitless, and that is kind of you to do so, but why are you making an exception for yourself? Everything is limitless, except you?

Why not include yourself in the limitlessness?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums