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17-10-2024, 01:35 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 16,088
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Opposites.
In Taoism opposites are part of one whole, one gives rise to the other and neither is excluded and neither one is superior to the other they are equal. One is not right and the other wrong nor real/unreal.
Imo only.....
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17-10-2024, 04:11 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky
In Taoism opposites are part of one whole, one gives rise to the other and neither is excluded and neither one is superior to the other they are equal. One is not right and the other wrong nor real/unreal.
Imo only.....
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17-10-2024, 05:05 PM
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Ascender
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky
In Taoism opposites are part of one whole, one gives rise to the other and neither is excluded and neither one is superior to the other they are equal. One is not right and the other wrong nor real/unreal.
Imo only.....
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Sounds good. And Still Waters said it all with the Still Waters. 
__________________
It is what it is.
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17-10-2024, 10:37 PM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 7,645
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i thought of that verse too, but, honestly I am too tired to figure out whether it is a 'real' description of any reality other than my own perceptions 
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17-10-2024, 10:42 PM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 7,645
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goldcup7
the hard for me is certain things obviously exist, but I want to call them 'unreal'. As if they don't?
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18-10-2024, 05:41 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 16,088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
i thought of that verse too, but, honestly I am too tired to figure out whether it is a 'real' description of any reality other than my own perceptions 
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And your own perceptions of being tired have created 'your' reality 
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18-10-2024, 12:38 PM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 7,645
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hi sky - the thing is everyone is telling me my perceptions of being 'tired' or being 'sad' are a bad thing, (you hinted at it again here). I should be 'happy' or 'blissful' I guess. This is said so many times, so many ways... Problem is I don't much LIKE 'happy' or 'blissful' right now - it seems much nicer to me to be 'tired' and 'sad'. It is a real problem living with such dichotomies where I know what others want for me and I just can't find it in my own beingness to go along with..../
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18-10-2024, 02:25 PM
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Ascender
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
hi sky - the thing is everyone is telling me my perceptions of being 'tired' or being 'sad' are a bad thing, (you hinted at it again here). I should be 'happy' or 'blissful' I guess.
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Hey, FallingLeaves, I wouldn't say that you should be happy or sad. Human nature fluctuates between the two. That's human life. What I would say is that's not you.
The human experience means knowing the highs and lows, and sometimes those lows are difficult to climb out of. Whatever happens in the human world imo there is an imperceptible you that isn't that. You can't perceive peace because it's where you're perceiving from.
Sticking with the theme of the thread, I remember a Taoist quote that goes something like this: The real Tao is not the one that can be described. And I see it similarly that our real nature is not this world of opposites we perceive.
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It is what it is.
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18-10-2024, 02:51 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 16,088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
hi sky - the thing is everyone is telling me my perceptions of being 'tired' or being 'sad' are a bad thing, (you hinted at it again here).
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Nope, I neither said nor hinted it was bad, please re-read my Post.
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19-10-2024, 01:31 PM
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Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 7,645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky
Nope, I neither said nor hinted it was bad, please re-read my Post.
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hi sky,
im aware there is a lot of stuff going on unconsciously that people don't know about... there is a 'desire' to be in the 'dark' because it doesn't suit one's own sense of vanity to clearly see what one is actually doing...
maybe I'm wrong on this though, I dunno. But it isn't like it matters so much any more either... just all my life i've flinched when stuff like that was said to me. I already feel like an outsider because noone would LET me be happy to begin with and then to be told I should work real hard to try to get it when people were just going to do more of the same? Really grated on me.
you will probably tell me but it is my choice whether or not to be happy. Sigh.
That is the way it came out instinctively for me, took me a long time to realize what I felt consciously.
anyway, back on topic yeah chapter one of the tao te ching says things like the way you can follow not being the entirety of the way things are.... or a name you can actually give something is not its entire name.... basically saying that science as it is practiced can never reach the intended goal...
this chapter also has quite a bit to say about the nature of perception...
here is my version:
A tao that one can tao
Is not the entire tao
A name that one can name
Is not the entire name.
In the absence of names
Lies the origin of heavens and earth
The presence of names
Is mother to the 10000 things.
So viewing entireness without desire
One may see subtleties
Viewing entireness with desire
One may see boundaries.
That which is these both
Goes about as itself yet there are different names.
Categorizing them together there is insight
Very deep insight
The gateway to collective subtleties.
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