Meditation, some answers

Originally Posted by Legrand

Hello zinnat,
Yes it is true in Indian iconography what you say, but not in all culture as I said. Could be the source of the difference of the occidental and oriental approach to this world. Who knows?

I am not aware of what other cultures say. Since you mentioned Female power Shakti occupying the right side in your post which is factually wrong according to Hindu mythology thus i objected. However i agree that other cultures may have different view.

with love,
sanjay

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Later you may want to read what Kirpal Singh has to say on this. (in a book, "Naam Or Word")

The term Naam is not used for those inner sounds which are at discussion here. This Naam term is used by all gurus who follow Santmat like Radhaswami, Saccha Sauda, Sahib Bandaagi, to name a few. My guess is that more than hundred such santmats and their followers may exist in India. Most of those are located in the northern states on India.

This naam is just like what Baptism is to Christianity. Without taking Naam from the head of the institution, one cannot join any of such santmat. This giving naam usually happen in big public ceremony, tough not always. In this process, the head guru speaks five words secretly in the ears of the disciple and that is it. The disciple is not supposed to tell these words to anyone and during meditation, the disciple has to repeat only these five words over and over.

Gurus say/claim that this naam is not merely the sound of those five words but it is kind of live entity if it is taken from the competent guru. It is some kind of power transferred from the guru to the disciple which remains with the later forever and helps him/her in the spiritual journey. However, i am not sure how much of it is true or not but it widely believed. Not only that, people who have taken naam consider themselves somewhat special than others.

with love,
sanjay

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ zinnat # 902 … yes, it’s true that that’s what the ‘cult’ is about but in as far as I know first hand from someone who was given ‘Naam’ or Deeksha, it’s more or less a catalyst cajoling focus on third eye region.

In as far as I know, all energetic unfoldments happen by actual consciousness shifts in lived reality (thought, word, deed) and ‘shaktipat’ or other methods are ineffective … unless perhaps imparted by a true adept, who recognises that the neophyte is ready.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by zinnat

Without taking Naam from the head of the institution, one cannot join any of such santmat. This giving naam usually happen in big public ceremony, tough not always. In this process, the head guru speaks five words secretly in the ears of the disciple and that is it.

As has been said before, the original initiation into Naam was done by shaktipat and then the initiate would meditate upon the inner Sound.

The ability to give this shaktipat initiation seems to have dwindled, so the guru now repeats the five words into the ear of the disciple and says that they should meditate on that.

The irony is that Sant Mat/RadhaSoami teachings very definitely refer to a Sound current, not the repetition of words:

There are inner Sounds that one receives instruction from a true Master about at the time of initiation into Surat Shabd Yoga. These Sounds are perceived to come from the right side or center and represent the Ascending Current.

Peace

[Gem]

I have to admit that repeating words by a guru seems completely misguided to me. I'd say stop doing that, which means my approach to meditation completely contradicts what some gurus are telling people to do.

[Gem]

I also think the sound meditation is being over complicated when all you have to do is listen to the sound you can hear in your head.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

@ zinnat # 902 … yes, it’s true that that’s what the ‘cult’ is about but in as far as I know first hand from someone who was given ‘Naam’ or Deeksha, it’s more or less a catalyst cajoling focus on third eye region.

In as far as I know, all energetic unfoldments happen by actual consciousness shifts in lived reality (thought, word, deed) and ‘shaktipat’ or other methods are ineffective … unless perhaps imparted by a true adept, who recognises that the neophyte is ready.

I agree with you here as all this becomes some kind of cult. However, as you mentioned that shakipat is possible for adept gurus but i have sincere doubts that can be possible on such mass scale where one guru is giving naam to some hundred newcomers in a single go.

As far as i know shaktipat cannot be done from thin air but as the name suggests it requires transfer of some amount of shakti(power) from guru to the receiver and no guru can have unlimited spiritual power so there must be some limitation to shakipat too. I think that can be possible only in one to one interaction only, not at the mass scale.

with love,
sanjay

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by iamthat

There are inner Sounds that one receives instruction from a true Master about at the time of initiation into Surat Shabd Yoga. These Sounds are perceived to come from the right side or center and represent the Ascending Current.

Yes, receives instructions as someone simply pointing a finger to what is already there inside ...but was unnoticed.
Not some big gigantic mystery, btw.
Just Be still...and listen inside...sure, focusing to the right is beneficial.
Use ear plugs ---that is a big help...no Guru needed.
Gosh, such a big deal made of Divine Music or Harmonies inside!..
As if it is for some exclusive club, no...we were born with this Sound! It's in
all creation, all around you and in you ...listen. (What I am saying has got to ring true to you...)

Originally Posted by iamthat

The ability to give this shaktipat initiation seems to have dwindled, so the guru now repeats the five words into the ear of the disciple and says that they should meditate on that.

The irony is that Sant Mat/RadhaSoami teachings very definitely refer to a Sound current, not the repetition of words: [/i]

Peace

I more or less agree with that.

Santmat says that the repetition of the five words would lead to sound current. They say that there are three ways for spiritual elevation.

First one is Papeel Marg. Papeel means ant and marg means way so it is a way of an ant where an aspirant moves like an ant slowly but sturdily but just like an ant he/she may fell down many time and has climb up again. This is the slowest way of spiritual elevation.
The second way is Meen Marg. Meen means fish so it is a way of s fish as we all know that fish moves using the stream so in this way the aspirant moves upwards using the current of inner sounds. In this way the aspirant has to concentrate only on the inner sounds and they automatically lead upwards.
The last and third way is called Vihangam Marg. Vihand means bird in sanskrit so it is a way of a bird. This is the fastest way amongst all three as the bird can take off immediately from anywhere and can fly to anywhere too , the same can be done by using this way too.

A very important thing to understand here that all this happens gradually. Means we all have to start using papeel way, then move to the Meen way and lastly to Vihangam. No one can jumpstart from Vihangam. Meditation on given naam or any other chosen mantras is the papeel way. If continued long enough and sincerely too, it would lead to inner sounds and aspirant automatically shifts to Meen way. But, Vihangam way opens only after crossing the tenth gate which is situated after 9th crown chakra.

with love.
sanjay

Originally Posted by Gem

I also think the sound meditation is being over complicated when all you have to do is listen to the sound you can hear in your head.

As far as i know and my experience also tells me that inner sounds do not manifest in the beginning. It takes some time. As a thumb rule, in the very starting phase, one has to use and rely on some kind of mantras for meditation, whether given by a guru or not. Having said that, it is also quite possible that because of the efforts/results of the past lives, some may be born with already manifested inner sounds. In this scenario, they can skip the first papeel way and start from the meen way.

with love,
sanjay