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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Science & Spirituality

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  #21  
Old 09-01-2021, 11:49 PM
freebird freebird is offline
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implications of quantum physics for spirituality

if this question would pop up on a physics forums, most users would probably deny the latter as being mutually exclusive

Well...On one hand, the former is a fundamental theory in physics that provides a description of the physical properties of nature where repeated experiments are conducted at atomic and subatomic scales, trying to provide evidence to backup the claims. Scientists at least try to be objective and sincere, using physics to provide explanation of the surrounding phenomena with some backed up evidence, trying to be precise, or at least to give some approximation.....the process is always repeated, tested, questioned (reviewed) and tried to be improved eventually...

On the other hand, the latter is more of philosophy...just claims...without evidence...the common denominator between the two is the associated 'weirdness'...being the only binding piece between the two.....hence the latter abusing QM for specific agenda to justify the lack of evidence.

Last edited by freebird : 10-01-2021 at 11:40 AM.
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  #22  
Old 19-01-2021, 01:32 AM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
implications of quantum physics for spirituality

if this question would pop up on a physics forums, most users would probably deny the latter as being mutually exclusive

Well...On one hand, the former is a fundamental theory in physics that provides a description of the physical properties of nature where repeated experiments are conducted at atomic and subatomic scales, trying to provide evidence to backup the claims. Scientists at least try to be objective and sincere, using physics to provide explanation of the surrounding phenomena with some backed up evidence, trying to be precise, or at least to give some approximation.....the process is always repeated, tested, questioned (reviewed) and tried to be improved eventually...

On the other hand, the latter is more of philosophy...just claims...without evidence...the common denominator between the two is the associated 'weirdness'...being the only binding piece between the two.....hence the latter abusing QM for specific agenda to justify the lack of evidence.

On a physics forum, I would have to agree that there is not much room for spirituality, nor should there be. Perhaps a mention or two near the boundaries of knowledge, but always with an acknowledgement that one has a toe or two over the line.

On a spirituality forum on the other hand there is plenty of room for QM and any and all of the sciences. I have always found the sciences, particularly the weirdness of QM and GR, to be helpful pointers for my spirituality, as long as I don't let them restrict me to only staying on the paths to which they point.
.
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  #23  
Old 19-01-2021, 09:05 AM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
On a physics forum, I would have to agree that there is not much room for spirituality, nor should there be. Perhaps a mention or two near the boundaries of knowledge, but always with an acknowledgement that one has a toe or two over the line.

On a spirituality forum on the other hand there is plenty of room for QM and any and all of the sciences. I have always found the sciences, particularly the weirdness of QM and GR, to be helpful pointers for my spirituality, as long as I don't let them restrict me to only staying on the paths to which they point.
.

Here's several interviews on what (ultimately) exists with some interesting takes, starting with Sean Carroll. https://youtu.be/z5qtyOwsiEk

Here's a notion or intuition I have and it mostly agrees with Sean, however for whatever reason I don't stop at quantum mechanics. Something deep down inside says the quantum wave function is the first manifestation of the Absolute, whatever It might be. Perhaps the Unified Field although this is where I'm out of my depth. I don't have the level of knowledge of theoretical physics to make any such statement as I'm not sure of the relationship between a proposed Unified Field (Superstring, M-Theory, etc...) and the quantum wave function.

By the way, intuition also informs me the Unified Field and Consciousness are one in the same, although this is where we get into the Ineffable and therefore it's beyond observational verification. Just my silly notion.
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  #24  
Old 19-01-2021, 12:52 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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You know, I can find 'implications' of spirit or spirituality in a piece o' pie.
(Good pie.)
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"Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by riding daily in a balloon of divine perception.

Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones...Meditate unceasingly,
that you quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence" ~~Lahiri Mahasaya, the guru of Yogananda's guru.


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  #25  
Old 19-01-2021, 01:51 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
You know, I can find 'implications' of spirit or spirituality in a piece o' pie.
(Good pie.)
Absolutely, especially since PI is one irrational number.
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  #26  
Old 19-01-2021, 02:09 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinsoo
Literally, "anything is possible"

That is what it means.

Having met various hidden masters throughout my lifetime, I long ago came to the same conclusion that "Literally, anything is possible".

There is a fascinating book, Quantum Questions edited by Ken Wilbur, which contains the "mystical" writings of various Nobel-Prize winning quantum physicists .. Schroedinger, Einstein, DeBroglie, Planck, Eddington, etc. ....... It is literally mind-boggling considering that it comes from a quantum physics perspective.
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  #27  
Old 19-01-2021, 02:11 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hybrid
spiritual implications and ramifications of quantum physics is that all is connected as a unified field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Bingo. I would say that is one of a handful of fabulous insights, for sure!

Quantum physicist David Bohm explicitly stated what you wrote above and referred to it as the "unbroken wholeness".

Well stated !
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  #28  
Old 19-01-2021, 02:19 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
I would say it's beyond connected. Ultimately there is only the Unified Field and the fundamental forces and particles we observe today are but appearances of and within it. Sound familiar?

That is the ultimate goal of theoretical physics. TOE (Theory of Everything) and two candidates are Superstring and M-Theory. M-Theory is string theory with an added dimension and the strings manifest as branes (membranes).

Even today electromagnetism and the nuclear weak force have been demonstrated to be but appearances of a more fundamental force, the electroweak force. Two Nobel Prizes were awarded for that work.

All this being said science will never, ever dig down to the bottom of reality. That's looking externally and one needs to look internally. The Ineffable will always be beyond science. Far, far beyond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Yup.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by hybrid
yes, its all about the nonlocality of the field source . this nonlocality makes everything ONE. not just interconnected but one (non-numerically). which is what the perennial spiritual teaching all along was declaring. god is one and all is in god. even the Trinitarian doctrine of one substance with three personas can be understood within the context of nonlocality. nonduality is also nonlocality. so quantum mechanics has lend a concept and a scientific terminology for spirituity



The Theoretical Unified Force Field is indeed the ultimate goal of theoretical physics ..... as physicists "dig down to the bottom of reality".

Schroedinger actually supports your conclusion that instruments used in physics "will never ever dig down to the bottom of reality" but that one must instead "look internally" as "the ineffable will always be beyond science. Far, far beyond".

Well put.
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  #29  
Old 19-01-2021, 02:43 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy


Here's several interviews on what (ultimately) exists with some interesting takes, starting with Sean Carroll. https://youtu.be/z5qtyOwsiEk

Here's a notion or intuition I have and it mostly agrees with Sean, however for whatever reason I don't stop at quantum mechanics. Something deep down inside says the quantum wave function is the first manifestation of the Absolute, whatever It might be. Perhaps the Unified Field although this is where I'm out of my depth. I don't have the level of knowledge of theoretical physics to make any such statement as I'm not sure of the relationship between a proposed Unified Field (Superstring, M-Theory, etc...) and the quantum wave function.

By the way, intuition also informs me the Unified Field and Consciousness are one in the same, although this is where we get into the Ineffable and therefore it's beyond observational verification. Just my silly notion.

I am a fan of Carroll as well. I have watched quite a few of his vids and read a coupletwothree of his books.

No need to stop at quantum mechanics unless you are a physicist explaining QM theory. At which point you will just be told to “shut up and calculate”, fun perhaps for some, but notsomuch for others. Now if you are a physicist studying physics, then you can keep going. However, you do have to follow all the traffic laws. On the other hand, if you are a you looking at QM from a perspective of spirituality, you are free to go off road and wander about as you see fit. However, you might want to keep mind of where the road is in case your jeep breaks down.

I have a notion that your notion is not too far off from a pretty good version of 'reality'. Your GPS seems to me to be navigating you to the right place. Of course, I have not yet been there either so that is just my intuition. I also have a notion that if we were to get there, we would find it is also just one more model of the Tao, one more manifestation among the myriad, yet a useful one in its own way.

What is a field other than a mathematical description of what effect might become known if we put something else into it? Do magnetic lines point north and south when there is no compass needle to be moved? Does a field exist if there is nothing for it to interact with? << Hehe, Modern Zen Koan?

There are waves, and there are oceans, two things that are also one thing. The waves move along the surface, but also affect what is deep below, and the depth of the ocean affects the waves in return. Far out to sea, over the deep ocean, the waves may have a long wavelength, low frequency, and a small amplitude, their energy is spread out in space and time. As they approach the shallows, the waves pile up against one another, decreasing in wavelength and increasing in frequency and amplitude, their energy condenses until they crest and crash against the shore, occasionally leaving behind a clue as to what all exists out there in the depths of the sea. On the beach, they move the grains of sand about, sometimes eroding away the beach and other times building it up, as both the wave and the ocean come to an end where they give way to the solid ground, even as the solid ground gives way to the waves. It is the beach that determines when the waves will peak, crest, and come to an end against the solid ground, yet it is the waves that shape and form the beach and no two waves can ever crash against the same beach. In this way, the beach, the waves, and the ocean are three things, that are also one.

Of course, over time even entire continents are eroded away grain by grain and transported by the rivers back into the sea, yada yada yada, where they settle back to become part of the ocean bottom. But this metaphor, and this post, is already long enough without drifting into plate tectonics and stretching it out over geological time.
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  #30  
Old 19-01-2021, 03:34 PM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
I am a fan of Carroll as well. I have watched quite a few of his vids and read a coupletwothree of his books.

I have a notion that your notion is not too far off from a pretty good version of 'reality'. Your GPS seems to me to be navigating you to the right place. Of course, I have not yet been there either so that is just my intuition. I also have a notion that if we were to get there, we would find it is also just one more model of the Tao, one more manifestation among the myriad, yet a useful one in its own way.

Another favorite is Brian Greene.

In one sense (Awareness/Consciousness) we are there. All of us. In another sense It, as experienced by Its illumination of mind, is necessarily limited, however It is there and always Self-revealing. It's just a matter of realization and being able to rest in It.

It's not even something we can grab, On the contrary It grabs us and that recognition is the "knowing" of Self-realization. Call it Grace.
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"Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own." ~ Bruce Lee

"Of a certainty the man who can see all creatures in himself, himself in all creatures, knows no sorrow." ~ Upanishads

https://tinyurl.com/y2mxr4s2 My YouTube Channel

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