Consciousness Has Appearance of Substance. CHAOS

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by JustBe

What if you’re dreaming and not ignorant to your dream and you in the dream?

Lucid Waking.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Idle musings ~

We have all had dreams within dreams.
Each dream feels real during the immersion therein.
This life then is another lucid dream.
Thoughts conjure dreams, images.
Thoughts arise in heart.
The heart is fickle, meaning awareness is stuporous.
If heart be tranquil, in equipoise, no thoughts arise.
Awareness self-aware yet is, vibrant and self-existent.
Dwelling there in our natural state, we feel complete.
Stretching awareness thus, we surf the bardo.
In, within, yet beyond space-time.
Both immanent and transcendent.
Perception non-differentiated.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

Lucid Waking.

Or

Simply aware and not controlling the dream. Is that still lucid waking?

I always thought lucid waking was when people control outcomes?

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Simply aware and not controlling the dream. Is that still lucid waking?

Yes, exactly.

Originally Posted by JustBe

I always thought lucid waking was when people control outcomes?

I'll speak to it from my perspective and experience. The amazing part of a lucid dream is that first moment of lucidity. The realization one is not the dream character but the Dreamer, and nothing in the dream is apart from the Dreamer. There are accomplished lucid dreamers that go far beyond that in that they can do like you said - control the dream. Shape the dream to one's liking. I'm not a natural lucid dreamer and for the 6 or 7 months I engaged the practices of lucid dreaming I had half a dozen or so, however I had no control whatsoever over the dream, just a realization I was in fact the Dreamer and everything in the dream was nothing apart from me. It's an absolute and unambiguous realization. Any fear or anxiety a dream might induce melts away. Freedom from the dream's plot, if you will, in that it cannot harm me in any way, shape or form because ultimately I am not the dream character but the Dreamer.

For me Lucid Waking is exactly like that only instead of being amazing it's infinitely profound. There could be nothing I could do that would either add to or detract from that state of being. In that light there is neither a need or desire to change anything. I'll posit that any control in this state of being is akin to Siddhis, and I'm fairly certain the Yoga Sutras say something like these are 'distractions' that come with the practice and not the goal of the practice. In fact at the earlier stages they can derail one's progress as they become a desire.

Rupert Spira on Lucid Waking - https://youtu.be/zGE1xlMUUhM?t=92

[Miss Hepburn]

Oh my, I didn't know it had some name, Lucid Waking...I just thought I ask or rather declare, decree something
to happen and of course it does.
Always for the good!!!
I don't bother telling stories - no one would believe them! They are too ridiculously consistently amazing...
that, of course, they aren't amazing anymore ...just the way things work.

[Ewwerrin]

Kind of reminds me of how some say 70% to 90% of the universe is dark energy/dark matter. And we have no idea what it is.

Scientists don't often accept the idea that consciousness has influence on reality. I have experienced differently. With maximum influence totally honoring absolute free will.

What scientist believe are worm holes have powerful catalystic effect on energetic thought patterns and their manifestation. It causes certain collective expectations to rise in frequency accelerating manifestation of subtle sub/unconscious (if someone is not aware of their emotional guidance system which allows deliberate creating.) believe systems.

It causes the limitations of ones set of believes to really expand out into the wide open.

And if wormholes are understood, it might be the deciding factor that allows even cosmic objects to have coherent consciousness or real intelligence. As information can travel beyond the speed of light.

I believe this, because I have endless of experiences proving to myself that consciousness has a profound effect on reality. Even without wormholes.

But there is the neutral infinity of all things as one thing, where max division reveals absolute oneness.

So every single individual consciousness is actually having a relationship with their own creating. Whatever the believe system is, that is what will be experienced. And if people choose to believe that they have no choice, they will live this and experience this.
If they believe they have too much control, then they may believe everything to be fake. And thus meaningless.

So people can develop a conscious relationship with their reality. It can serve as the platform for variety which inspires new desires which can be believed in and thus realised in fullness, including spacetime manifestational realisation.
So this can be a joyful creating.

Others say that free will is overrated. As having the freedom to choose bondage kind of invalidates free will. And then they will go looking for that which is beyond duality/relativity.

As relativity gives total freedom to all. Life becomes a personal act of creating. Others say, no, what humans define as free will is not free will. And I would agree in the sense that most people have no idea what ultimate freedom is.

But when the individual wants to experience a different reality, they can easily enter a world where people do know their total freedom. There is no such limitation.

Usually the idea of nonduality is used to mean, "all your habbitually practiced energetic thought patterns" are false. They are believes and they are all false. Meaning, your life is a total illusion, including the idea of self.

And this can be helpful if someone wants to experience a completely different reality. They can easily know that the relative nature of reality, or dual nature of it, means that nothing is set into stone. Whatever one wants to experience in life, one can experience it in mere minutes, if the willingness to focus and feel emotions as they are doing so, is there. To the minute details of preference. With compounded dimensions upon one another.

And because what people really want, is to awaken to their absolute freedom, no reality is required. So we can say, here is this unconditional nature of who you are, it is unconditional freedom or joy. And we can call it nondual. Because it already always is the highest truth or most absolute. If you lose freedom, you lose it only to your own greater non-physical source consciousness. So freedom is thus absolute.

So in a sense, we wake up to the consciousness that is creating ones own life. And it is so different in vibrational quality, also of unconditional love and joy and appreciation and immense clarity. We can say it is different from all other common habbitually practiced energetic thought patterns (believes), that we can call it "not dualistic". As all those thoughts are dualistic and divisive. So we can call the ultimate freedom nondual.

This is said in this way, because of the limitations of language.

When a person talks about unconditional freedom, they cannot communicate it in words. They can spend a lifetime trying to convince you of your freedom and achieve the complete opposite. So the very next best thing is to say "Everything you have ever thought, is not it." And leave the rest for the individual to figure out.

But more then letting people figure it out. Once all reality is let go, what remains is the pure unconditional freedom of pure limitless/boundless consciousness. So in a sense, it is the total lack of effort, that reveals the greatest and most powerful and absolute of freedoms.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

Because that's the closest I can come to describing a first person experience and keep it as honest as possible within the limitations of intellect and language.

But it's still a dream analogy isn't it. It isn't an actual. It's a likeness based upon an experience of what you call a dream that is experienced when the spirit leaves the physical body.

The word dream can mean different things to different folk I dare say, so it can depend on what that definition is for one to then shape reality around it.

You only have to see what key words like self or mind do to folk when shaping an understanding of reality.

x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

. All analogies have a main underlining meaning or point, that it is making, that can be described by using the common everyday english language or words

.

The thing is that everyone has an understanding of what words mean or point too.

Some differ completely with one and other and yet declare that reality is like this and not like that. This happens when different understanding are had.

This is why you can have a bunch of self realised dudes saying the opposite and proclaiming this or that about Consciousness or whatever.

What's that say about what is actually realised? That life is but a dream?

Well a dream has subjective meaning it's not realised.


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustBe

We are the dream, dreamer, dreaming ourselves into creation. It’s not about how, it’s just the nature of the self creating itself ongoing…

Well it's easy to say it's not about how when one is ignorant to how it happens.
Peeps throw a lot of stuff about, especially about Consciousness and yet no-one knows what it is and yet proclaim that what we are arises within and of it for examples sake.

Again, I could swap the word dream and use another word.

You speak about creating everything and don't know how but we do know how night time dreams are manifested.

I have heard over the years that peeps create the houses they live in and when they go to work or out for a walk it no longer exists.

It's pure speculation just like the dream analogy is.

Jasg speaks of the dream being an analogy and yet reflects in his talk that it is an actuality.

Are you speaking about the reality is dream based as an actuality?

Are you creating everyone in your dream of the walking world.

Are you creating what I am writing, right now?

In hindsight in a nighttime dream one knows that subconsciously one has created it along with all that which appears in it.

Obviously there are so many variants of dreams that it can be at times impossible for some to discern what is what in these cases.

Like the other day I had a vivid dream of someone who I had confirmation of the next day as being someone from spirit.

So it was actual. It was real. It wasn't a subconscious creation.

So this is why a dream reality doesn't work as an absolute reality.


x daz x

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

Yes, exactly.

the Dreamer.

I'll posit that any control in this state of being is akin to Siddhis, and I'm fairly certain the Yoga Sutras say something like these are 'distractions' that come with the practice and not the goal of the practice. In fact at the earlier stages they can derail one's progress as they become a desire.

Rupert Spira on Lucid Waking - https://youtu.be/zGE1xlMUUhM?t=92

Thanks for further clarifying. My partner is always saying, how do you recall and are so aware of yourself in dreams and what they mean and do for you. My answer is usually, because I’m aware of myself awake.. Lol


What you’ve described about lucidity experiences you’ve had, is my normal. No matter what I’m going through in a dream, I’m very aware of how it’s supporting, shifting and bringing awareness to me almost as soon as I wake, everything melts away as you’ve mentioned. It might lend me to let go of tight sensations, affirm, bring awareness, even prophetic insights, I’m aware of the relationship to my reality as myself. It’s a co creative state as myself. I pretty much in this zone spontaneously several times a week. I read people forcing lucid and I’m surprised, because immediately, I feel control is the very thing we are letting go of.

Gosh we are on the same page..