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  #11  
Old 28-01-2021, 01:05 AM
PurpleCabbage PurpleCabbage is offline
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I remember vividly we had just finished a full energy efficiency installation at a remote data center some high volume of LED lights & adjustable valves on condenser pumps were installed to essentially revamp our power usage at a 20,000sqf facility, a smaller center for Seattle. One of our tenants was interested in some volume of the floor for their mining operation, that we quickly Vetoed. Simply because of the reality they were there to burn Heat energy to make a profit, I think of traditional mining, well this clearly has a direction and is it up?

What are the long term repercussion in a quantum state if we are essentially trading equipment volume for heat energy to accumulate a fluctuating asset? Even if it can become valuable, essentially it has to botch the scarcity or demand value somehow to get people to use it, hence the limited quantity. Well the cost of star heat is enormous although I don’t necessarily trade it for currency(Some probably do). Will mining always be a medium for exchange? In theory, if the times during when it was implemented remain as a high value in our society. This goes into Value economics instantly, if it’s clean, was intended for good productive value & can be verified by enough people consistently as in “yes we got rich and we added to humanity in a positive way” then the legacy will remain above the threshold and people will continue to respect it & it’s value. Plenty of traded currencies no longer exist with powerful faces on the front because of their directional leadership attribution.

My main concern is when they got the instant Veto from operations, running hundreds of data centers. How above ground can a mining operation propel a society above ground? Who is leading the face of the currency? How can this be universalized in a positive value?

I think of the realities here in Washington state where Amazon thrives, although not everyone here is actually happy about it, because of the volume of small businesses that are effected. The currency pools and quality of life is well influenced, and not necessarily to any one person, hubris is often reality, while my experience errs on the side of fluctuating time physics. Then we have Alibaba from China, China took the backseat to the internet, watched patiently, & they manage to set up the highest volume sales day globally, and they did it with a more small business friendly network. Leadership is always learning.

CEOs will continually represent their total network value even long after they have moved onto other avenues of leadership. who will keep the name of the currency alive & thriving?

I will hold faith in consciousness because of those involved, that the directional leadership of the owner of that currency is seeking to exemplify positive attributes to humanity. That they Go Vegetarian, Go Vegan, & maybe try some cabbage. (Can someone cc Zion)

Namaste
-Jesse
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  #12  
Old 28-01-2021, 06:37 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleCabbage
I remember vividly we had just finished a full energy efficiency installation at a remote data center some high volume of LED lights & adjustable valves on condenser pumps were installed to essentially revamp our power usage at a 20,000sqf facility, a smaller center for Seattle. One of our tenants was interested in some volume of the floor for their mining operation, that we quickly Vetoed. Simply because of the reality they were there to burn Heat energy to make a profit, I think of traditional mining, well this clearly has a direction and is it up?

What are the long term repercussion in a quantum state if we are essentially trading equipment volume for heat energy to accumulate a fluctuating asset? Even if it can become valuable, essentially it has to botch the scarcity or demand value somehow to get people to use it, hence the limited quantity. Well the cost of star heat is enormous although I don’t necessarily trade it for currency(Some probably do). Will mining always be a medium for exchange? In theory, if the times during when it was implemented remain as a high value in our society. This goes into Value economics instantly, if it’s clean, was intended for good productive value & can be verified by enough people consistently as in “yes we got rich and we added to humanity in a positive way” then the legacy will remain above the threshold and people will continue to respect it & it’s value. Plenty of traded currencies no longer exist with powerful faces on the front because of their directional leadership attribution.

My main concern is when they got the instant Veto from operations, running hundreds of data centers. How above ground can a mining operation propel a society above ground? Who is leading the face of the currency? How can this be universalized in a positive value?

I think of the realities here in Washington state where Amazon thrives, although not everyone here is actually happy about it, because of the volume of small businesses that are effected. The currency pools and quality of life is well influenced, and not necessarily to any one person, hubris is often reality, while my experience errs on the side of fluctuating time physics. Then we have Alibaba from China, China took the backseat to the internet, watched patiently, & they manage to set up the highest volume sales day globally, and they did it with a more small business friendly network. Leadership is always learning.

CEOs will continually represent their total network value even long after they have moved onto other avenues of leadership. who will keep the name of the currency alive & thriving?

I will hold faith in consciousness because of those involved, that the directional leadership of the owner of that currency is seeking to exemplify positive attributes to humanity. That they Go Vegetarian, Go Vegan, & maybe try some cabbage. (Can someone cc Zion)

Namaste
-Jesse




That's wild. It's a quality post, and therefore an internet rarity.



The currency needs A LOT of electricity to drive the mines which create the blocks - a LOOOOTTT!.



It is extremely inefficient on face value, but I think less energy is used to mint 10K of Bitcoin than energy used to produce 10K in Gold.



For a miner, expenses are the cost of electricity, space leasing and depreciation of hardware. The mining machines produce a ton of heat and make a lot of noise.



If the price of a coin falls too low the mines run at a short term loss (I think it's somewhere like 12-15K per coin break even, not sure) Everytime there is a 'Halvening' (when the rate of supply is halved) it becomes more expensive to mine a coin.


This leads to a major problem because as the reward in coins for mining becomes less viable, miners increasingly rely on transaction fees. When issuance of new coins ceases at 21M coins, miners will be reliant on transaction fees alone, which will make using the coins for smaller transactions prohibitively expensive.


Hence, I do not see Bitcoin as energy efficient, nor as sustainable asset in its current form, because it requires increasing amounts of energy over time to mine. As mining becomes impossibly expensive, and terminates in the future, miners' bitcoin rewards will have to be made up for in transactions to keep the currency afloat.


It all relies on the coins becoming extremely valuable, and ultimately, a high velocity of transactions.
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  #13  
Old 28-01-2021, 09:49 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Cathie Wood is CEO of ARK Invest which runs the most successful index funds on NASDAQ. She is like an investment celebrity or something these days, and I'm a fan--boy. This video is her commentary on Bitcoin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PNbg4TTpuw

My interest isn't so much in the business case. The business case is compelling, but the subtext of the narrative is much more interesting. That subtext is a story about how Bitcoin finds cultural significance and becomes integral to social systems globally. There is something behind the Bitcoin itself. It is capturing humanity in some way, and it's only apt that I can't quite put my finger on it - though I can sense it is there.
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  #14  
Old 15-04-2021, 08:54 PM
lostsoul13 lostsoul13 is offline
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Constant mining for Bitcoin would be the perfect bride for the groom.
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Vampire speed..

Arabic first language (English)—- bear with me and please be patient)
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  #15  
Old 28-05-2021, 05:45 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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I was just reading into the issue of Bitcoin's energy consumption. Bitcoin uses a lot of electricity so people are concerned about its sustainability. The way things are currently done, Bitcoin isn't a sustainable asset because as it scales to mass adoption, increasing electricity is requited to process the growing number of transactions.

This is forcing Bitcoin to adapt in some unexpected ways. On the surface, just moving toward renewable energy is the superficial conversation, but there is a deeper discussion about Bitcoin becoming integrated with the renewable energy sector.

The main problem with renewables like wind and solar is the intermittent supply - No wind no power, no sun no power - so they require energy storage systems, like, charge up batteries which the sun shines so there is stored energy to use at night. This means if there is a lot of sun/wind, all the batteries are fully charged, and any additional energy is just siphoned off and wasted, and the energy suppliers make no revenue on that excess.

They want the revenue, of course, so there is a discussion going on about solar/wind renewable energy suppliers investing in Bitcoin mining computers and run them on the otherwise wasted excess energy so that they can earn Bitcoin using the siphoned off and otherwise wasted electricity. This makes such renewable energy suppliers more competitive, which ultimately leads to more affordable costs to consumers.

There is at least one energy company currently raising money to invest in Bitcoin mining computers, so obviously they have researched it and found that it is viable and profitable, and it looks to me like Bitcoin will shift from being a huge energy consumer to being an integral component of renewable energy supply eco systems. I believe this something Tesla is looking into.
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  #16  
Old 20-11-2021, 02:55 AM
Rokazulu Rokazulu is offline
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The story of Satoshi Nakamoto is interesting. We already know the identity of him. Bitcoin has been kept artificially at a lower block size, thus the fork into two now three separate coins. Only one of them follows the protocol outlined by the white paper. The others, simply profit off the higher transaction fees which results in a slower more expensive network.

Of course, in my estimation, that won't matter for a very long time. People will still make quite a bit of money if they invest in Bitcoin or whatever currency they feel will go up. Because it is all in a speculation phase right now. Not nearly enough organizations accept Bitcoin, yet people know that one day there will be a reckoning, and they are preparing for it.

Crypto will pick up the pieces where central banks have fallen. Putting them out of the way will certainly create a more efficient currency system that does not require a middle man and does not have any inflation. It will allow a great deal of abundance for many people.

The idea that it is energy inefficient won't have any effect on its expansion. People will simply use their crypto wealth to provide them with any energy that they need to continue mining, anyway they can. Both unfortunate and fortunate.

This is only an intermediary step though. There is also the possibility of going back to a type of gold/silver standard alongside crypto, but of course it all will be phased out for something more... well, human in the near-distant future.
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  #17  
Old 20-11-2021, 03:53 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokazulu
The story of Satoshi Nakamoto is interesting. We already know the identity of him.
No one really knows who he is. Some have claimed to be him and others are suspected of being him, but no one can prove anything or they choose not to.
Quote:
Not nearly enough organizations accept Bitcoin, yet people know that one day there will be a reckoning, and they are preparing for it.
Yes. Within one generation most companies, all investment funds and even a number national treasuries will have Bitcoin.
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more efficient currency system that does not require a middle man
That's key. Decentralised, permissionless peer 2 peer.
Quote:
The idea that it is energy inefficient won't have any effect on its expansion.
Bitcoin will integrate as electricity companies attach mines to stablise the grid and capitalise on otherwise wasted excess power capacity.
Quote:
This is only an intermediary step though. There is also the possibility of going back to a type of gold/silver standard alongside crypto
When nations switch to digital currencies, Bitcoin will be a unofficial quazi-'gold standard'. Bitcoin will be integrated with energy supply, which makes it a new form of global reserve, and market cap will be bigger than gold and silver combined.
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but of course it all will be phased out for something more... well, human in the near-distant future.
Yes, this will be the next phase of the money system and eventually the wold will change and it will no longer work. Then we go into a new phase of quantum data or whatever it is.
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  #18  
Old 25-11-2021, 03:41 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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If bit-coin is such an energy hog, why would people want to switch to bit-coin?
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  #19  
Old 25-11-2021, 03:44 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Then there is El Salvador which wants to build a city by a volcano funded by bit-coin and use the heat from the volcano to generate power for mining, etc. The city apparently will only have a value added tax and money from mining to fund the operation(s). Should be interesting to see if it ever gets off the 'ground'.
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  #20  
Old 25-11-2021, 04:15 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
Then there is El Salvador which wants to build a city by a volcano funded by bit-coin and use the heat from the volcano to generate power for mining, etc. The city apparently will only have a value added tax and money from mining to fund the operation(s). Should be interesting to see if it ever gets off the 'ground'.
ElSalvador is selling Bitcoin backed bonds wort 1M USD. 500M for Bitcoin treasury and 500M for Bitcoin mining. The big Bitcoin whale are going to buy the bonds for a 6% return.

The mining income mitigates the risk from Bitcoin price fluctuation, and the Bitcoin city they are building will generate massive tourism from Bitcoiners who are very rich. Lots of jobs created. The real estate sales will be worth Billions mostly paid in Bitcoin...

It's a pretty good idea. ElSalavdor will soon own lots, and lots, of Bitcoin...

The reason it is a smart play is Bitcoin is starting to be an institutional asset. The institutional buyers at this early stage are just buying - not selling - because they are betting on being early and want to ride the wave. If Bitcoin dumps they will buy more. If it goes up they will keep buying. Once they buy it they are holding. They are not going to put it back on the market. Bitcoin has a finite supply. This means the number of Bitcoin traded on exchanges will 'dry up'. IOW the available supply will shrink and the upward price pressure will amplify.

Otherwise they could stick with 100% USD which will definitely decrease in value over time

I think the ElSalvador president understands this. It's actually a pretty genius move.
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