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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #231  
Old 28-11-2021, 04:17 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
I actually traveled to many places, including the Himalayas and holy places as Sarvapriyananda mentioned in the video, ..... until I realized that one doesn't have to go anywhere as "IT" (awareness) is always with us. ...
Slow learner, eh?
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  #232  
Old 28-11-2021, 04:57 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 227 EXCERPT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade

One's own ego is an 'interface' between their internal and external realities, and there is a symbiotic relationship going on between the two.

Emotions are a response to cognitive behaviour or cognitive dissonance, depending on the state of the person at that time.

I know my own emotions come from thoughts and those come from my cognitive functions.

I would agree that the little SEPARATIST "ego is an 'interface' between their internal and external realities" with the sense of separation creating the impression of "internal and external realities".

You wrote that "thoughts seem to arise from, they come from the internal processing of the unconscious then 'filter through' to our conscious, it seems to happen in much the same way as dreams can be the unconscious making us aware of its 'contents' ". That is actually a very good insight and I can relate very well to the dream analogy that you provided. As a matter of fact, "revelations" (as described in a previous post of mine) act similarly in many ways as the imaginative faculty projects (mental activity, including thoughts) the indescribable revelation in dream-like fashion prior to it being converted to words in order to communicate it to those who need words.


You also wrote that "These processes also create our sense of 'I am', which is the reason that 'I am......' seems to fade into the background and we can perceive ourselves as 'no-thing' ". This is going in a very illuminating direction as the sense of "I AM" does indeed seem to arise with the activity of consciousness and it does indeed "fade into the background" (well put) with the stillness/quietude and the sense of "no thing".

As you duly noted, "The system also releases 'happy hormones' into the brain, that's been programmed into us since the caveman days - as with the 'fight-or-flight' reflex". It's interesting that you should mention that as I am currently taking an online MOOC course (www.coursera.org) on Brain Neurobiology and we are going into the sympathetic nervous system ('fight-or-flight) and the parasympathetic nervous system (calming or, as you put it, "happy hormones"). These are obviously responses to various perceptions either internally or externally. As you can see, I like to investigate from as many perspectives as possible ... medical, physics, psychology, etc.

Lastly, from a psychological perspective, you mentioned that "Emotions are a response to cognitive behaviour or cognitive dissonance" and "I know my own emotions come from thoughts and those come from my cognitive functions". It seems that we are in agreement that emotions proceed from cognitive activity (thoughts, etc.) and, as you also noted, emotions tend to be more enduring. I believe that the word "emotion" comes from the Latin verb "emoveo" which means "to move" and emotions definitely set into motion forces that move us to action ... either physically or mentally or otherwise ... all of which proceed from the underlying belief/thought.

As expected from you, this is a very insightful clear post and is presented very articulately. We are pretty much in agreement on virtually everything here.
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  #233  
Old 28-11-2021, 05:06 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Slow learner, eh?

You have no idea of what a "slow learner" this intellectually-challenged outwardly-oriented person has been ... as I traveled to almost 50 countries and innumerable pilgrimage destinations before finally getting the point.
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  #234  
Old Yesterday, 11:16 AM
Viswa Viswa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Slow learner, eh?

Hi Miss Hepburn. When I see this question, I felt I am a slow learner. I will try my best to quickly learn and understand, so no one might get hurt. Thank you.

Namaste.

Last edited by Viswa : Yesterday at 01:00 PM.
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  #235  
Old Yesterday, 11:33 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
Opposites and separation are not reality/truth.
And so Brahman is no longer Brahman.
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  #236  
Old Yesterday, 12:45 PM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
As a matter of fact, "revelations" (as described in a previous post of mine) act similarly in many ways as the imaginative faculty projects (mental activity, including thoughts) the indescribable revelation in dream-like fashion prior to it being converted to words in order to communicate it to those who need words.
I was watching an interesting YouTube about time and how science explains what Spirituality would term as The Now. The past is classic, in that it is known. The future is quantum, it is not known but is a 'sea' of possibilities and probabilities. The Now is where the quantum becomes classic. This is very similar to the mind and imagination, the mind is classic and the imagination is the quantum, where possibilities and probabilities are explored.

We are in a 'feedback loop' with our unconscious whether we know it or not, and while we can't affect it directly we can influence it - which is at the heart of CBT. From my own experience, I can ponder things until my brain collapses and just can't think straight any more, then I give up. What does happen though, often when I'm not thinking about anything in particular and my mind is a blank slate for a few moments, the realisations come through unbidden. Those kinds of realisations - being different to the realisations that can come from the processing of information - certainly have a different... frequency.

Dreams are a more 'pure' consciousness, for the most part our minds think in pictures and they convey a thousand words. The imagery is a 'translation' for the mind that can't deal with consciousness itself. They are also far more 'honest' if we can translate them effectively, because they haven't been 'filtered' via one's cognitive behaviour. Perhaps if Spirituality came in pictures more, so too might revelations. If the imagery is akin to eyesight and the words akin to listening, does that tell us something?`

So while dreams come when the conscious has been slowed to a crawl, as does the revelations when we are in a 'waking state'. And considering the number of unconscious processes that are happening at any one time, it's not a paradigm shift to think that perhaps there is far more going on 'behind the scenes' than there is in front of the audience of one.

I don't see the ego as 'separatist' but it does differentiate and that is the basis of Duality. It differentiates between 'this' and 'that' and in a bout of binary thinking Duality springs forth, but between the interaction of the two there is consciousness. There is 'this', there is 'that' and there is 'both'. Simple Spiritual number-crunching - 1+1=3. But then, ego is individual after all and the ego that can separate is just as capable of encompassing.

Does Duality mean that are we not conscious of consciousness?
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  #237  
Old Yesterday, 06:09 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
QUOTE 226 EXCERPT:

There are some non-dualist mystics such as Shankara who clearly realized the "wholeness" (no opposites or separation) but were able to engage "occult powers" just as easily as an aware lucid dreamer can perform them in a lucid dream. The analogy should serve as a reasonable supporting point.
I do not relate the occult with Shankara, nor will I call the powers he had, occult, supernatural or paranormal in nature at all.

Shankara founded the advaita school of vedanta philosophy.Shankara's philosophy is called advaita—or nonduality, because it strives to ascribe all reality to a single dynamic, unitary source, which means that there are no opposites and separation. The physical and the spiritual are part of the same whole reality.

I don't think that the dream analogy is a good example, because dreams, lucid or not, may be a way people focus on and are conscious of their memory, beliefs, thoughts etc etc. This is the reason why I am skeptical of dreams being absolute/a part of the whole.
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  #238  
Old Yesterday, 10:20 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 236 EXCERPT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade


The future is ... a 'sea' of possibilities and probabilities.

... often when I'm not thinking about anything in particular and my mind is a blank slate for a few moments, the realisations come through unbidden.

I don't see the ego as 'separatist' but it does differentiate and that is the basis of Duality.


The first two statements in your post that I quoted above are very consistent with my understanding. In that thought-free stillness, one attunes to the collective unconscious (in Jungian terms or, alternatively, the "expanded consciousness", "God consciousness", the "Big Picture", etc.) and can sense the forces already in motion that are contributing factors to the "future". In meditation, one develops this sense and can see the descending future as a "sea of possibilities and probabilities" with one's actions often being a contributing factor to at least some degree. That is precisely how the "stillness" (the "unknowing") influences my Life. Excellent point!


You wrote that "We are in a 'feedback loop' with our unconscious". This, of course, is true. As you probably know from your Jungian studies, the Jungian complexes are clear examples of the unconscious processing that is taking place often without our awareness. In addition, as noted above, that feedback loop also includes interacting with the collective unconscious (Jungian terminology once again) in recognizing the "sea of possibilities and probabilities for the future) whether we know it or not.

As you noted, "dreams are a 'pure consciousness'" and this seems true since, in my conscious sleep meditations, I have used dreams to explore my unconscious (or subconscious in terminology more agreeable to others here) as it manifests in dream symbology. (Some dreams, however, are obviously without symbology.)

You also wrote: "Perhaps if Spirituality came in pictures more, so too might revelations. "That is precisely my understanding of revelations as that of the Kabbalists. As I've written before, my revelations have been projected in dream-like fashion either visually or auditorily or both.

Regarding your comment that "I don't see the ego as 'separatist' but it does differentiate and that is the basis of Duality", perhaps my choice of words must be clearer. When I refer to the "separatist ego", I am referring to the ego that perceives separateness and not wholeness. Perhaps I should use Buddhist terminology and call it the "unwholesome ego" as opposed to the "wholesome ego" that sees wholeness and no separateness. The "wholesome" ego can see the Reality from at least two perspectives in accordance with the Zen saying:

"Equality without differentiation is poor equality .. but .. differentiation without equality is poor differentiation".

Lastly, you raised the question: "Does Duality mean that are we not conscious of consciousness?" My sense is that dualists have a limited view of some aspects of consciousness but clearly do not see the WHOLE consciousness, the so-called Big Picture. In that sense, the view of the dualist is "unwholesome".
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  #239  
Old Yesterday, 10:44 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 237 EXCERPT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
I do not relate the occult with Shankara, nor will I call the powers he had, occult, supernatural or paranormal in nature at all.

I don't think that the dream analogy is a good example, because dreams, lucid or not, may be a way people focus on and are conscious of their memory, beliefs, thoughts etc etc.

This is proceeding quite well as we go deeper and deeper. I agree with you when you write that "I do not relate the occult with Shankara, nor will I call the powers he had occult, supernatural or paranormal at all". For one established in the "wholeness" of non-duality, the so-called "miracles" are actually quite natural. For the unwholesome ones, such powers appear "miraculous" and "occult"/magical.

What then is your definition of the "occult"?

As for the dream analogy not being a good example since you consider dreams to be "a way people focus on and are conscious of their memory, beliefs, thoughts, etc. etc.", my experience is that this is only partially true. There are various levels of "dreams" which range from exactly what you wrote on one hand ... to revelations which manifest in dream-like fashion and are not necessarily connected to one's memory, beliefs, or thoughts. Hence, I still feel that the dream presents an excellent analogy for discussion purposes due to the wide range of dreams with the meaning and nature of the most common mundane dreams being very obvious in accordance with what you wrote.
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