Why/how do people accept duality?

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by TattieHowker

like relationships - that Spirit can't experience

I myself think that's the main function of spirit or soul or us. Relationships. We have certain kinds of relationships with other human beings, certain relationships with our thoughts, and conditioned beliefs etc. Certain relationships with God or our source. Certain relationships with all other living things, plants and trees etc.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Brah·man
1.a member of the highest Hindu caste, that of the priesthood.

And Brahman:
2. (in Hinduism) the ultimate reality underlying all phenomena.

[TattieHowker]

Originally Posted by kris

I agree with part of what you say - there is only Brahman. Brahman is all there is, but we do not perceive all of it in our normal state of awareness. What we perceive is duality. What we don't normally perceive is non-dual.

No we don't because we're limited and there are so many things that are beyond our ability to perceive them. But what Duality are you referring to? Duality - to keep it in line with non-Duality - is the 'distance' between consciousness and its 'objects'. For example, there was a thread that asked if Spirituality would still exist if nobody believed in it, and the common answer was that it would. In that context it was a 'thing' in its own right so there was Duality between Spirituality and one's consciousness. Then there's the Duality of opposites, but positive and negative, as in an experience for example, are what the observer/experiencer says they are. Duality doesn't exist, it's created by the 'real ego'/Ahankara.

There is also the belief that the experiencer and the experience are one and the same, or that there is no experiencer. Both of those are true within their own perspectives. If you're going to understand that though, you have to go to where they are created and not many folks do that. That's kind of a shame because it dovetails into so many other principles and makes sense of them.

[TattieHowker]

Originally Posted by Maisy

But then I don't know what caste is either.

A caste is akin to the old hierarchy of social structure, where you had lower-middle- and upper-classes.

Essentially, Brahman is the Ultimate Reality and existence as we perceive it is a projection of Brahman, that's where the "Life is an illusion" stuff comes from.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahma...ll%20existence.

And if you read that and think "Whoa, that sounds like the Christian God" you'd be right.

Where it gets closer to home is...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guide...%20everlasting.

Jesus said something very similar.

[TattieHowker]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

And Brahman:
2. (in Hinduism) the ultimate reality underlying all phenomena.

So while you're trying to 'unlock' what is real and what is not.... The only reality is Brahman, and what is not real is also Brahman. And when people and their arguments get heated and they start throwing bombs at each other in this forum, that too is Brahman. You can go rest your weary head.

[TattieHowker]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I myself think that's the main function of spirit or soul or us. Relationships. We have certain kinds of relationships with other human beings, certain relationships with our thoughts, and conditioned beliefs etc. Certain relationships with God or our source. Certain relationships with all other living things, plants and trees etc.

Let me let you into a little secret that blows Duality out of the water. Grab a pencil and paper, and a compass. Now, draw two circles - any size - apart from each other. One circle is 'this' and the other circle is 'that', and they can be anything you like that you put into a relationship. 'This' is you, 'that' is God. 'This' is you, 'that' is Spirituality. Dualistic, 'here' and 'there' - you get the idea.

This time, draw two circles but overlap them. That is called the Vesica Pisces or the Trinity, it has a history that goes back many years - it's the origin of the Christian fish symbol, which only uses a part of the whole symbol. One circle is 'this', the other circle is 'that', but now you have an overlap what's in there? 'There' is where you 'become' conscious. Every post with Maisy and anyone else, you become just a little more aware of/conscious of if you're paying attention.

I could also argue that your relationship Spirituality is conditioning your thoughts - it's called neurological programming and in Spirituality (but not exclusively) people do it to themselves.

Added later:-

I found this when I was bimbling through YouTube. Tertium non datur -
https://frithluton.com/articles/tertium-non-datur/

[kris]

Originally Posted by TattieHowker

But what Duality are you referring to?

For starters, duality is perceiving the world as made up of two components - 'me' and 'not me'.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by kris

For starters, duality is perceiving the world as made up of two components - 'me' and 'not me'.

I myself don't believe that is the definition of duality in a "spirituality" context. I don't think an experience of "non-duality" has anything to do with an ending of the perception me and that are two different things. To me that is just reality. I am not the apple on the table for example. Me and not me is just an observable reality or fact. I think that understanding or perception (of reality) will never change. I think one will always know they are not the apple. Enlightened or not.

I think duality as it relates to spirituality is the state of being where one is identified with their ego. To me, it's called "duality" because two are thought to be one and act and live as one. A person is living, experiencing, being, perceiving in this dual state of total ego identification. Conscious awareness, which is what I believe we are, is fully merged with and identifying with ego creating one self out of two things and living that way. That to me is duality and a dualistic perception and way of being.

Non-duality to me is a consciousness that is aware of itself as not ego, knows what is not me, and is therefore not identified with ego and so does not perceive the world through the filters of ego or a dualistic perspective.

So to me, duality is two being one (not knowing who and what I really am), and non-duality is knowing what is not me, the ego, and therefore not identifying with it.

Like how non-duality to me has nothing to do with losing what I would call sanity, knowing me and that are different, losing ego to me has nothing to do with losing identity or a sense of self. I think these are just common places ego/thought goes when defending itself as the self. Ego is made in such a way to make one keep it. It will always present ideas and thoughts in such a way to confuse and obstruct the awareness of where I and ego's boundaries are. In other words, ego will be in charge of the pursuit to be free of ego, Ego will be well involved in the seeking to end ego or duality. Thus why so many teachers have said to seek nothing. The seeker is ego. One has to drop all self interest or concern as that is only adding conflict to the now, an experience of duality in the now. In non-duality, reaching a goal is not the solution. Not having a goal is. The ego imagines the problem and the way to solve it. Thus creating identification with itself.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Brah·man noun
1. a member of the highest Hindu caste, that of the priesthood. "a Brahman family"

It may be more common to see this definition spelt as Brahmin, although obviously Brahman and Brahmin have the same linguistic source.

Peace

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I don't think an experience of "non-duality" has anything to do with an ending of the perception me and that are two different things. To me that is just reality. I am not the apple on the table for example. Me and not me is just an observable reality or fact. I think that understanding or perception (of reality) will never change. I think one will always know they are not the apple. Enlightened or not.

With the realisation of the Self comes the direct perception that we are the apple on the table. We are also the table and the space between the eyes and the table. And also the wall beyond the table and everything else in the room. There is nowhere where the Self is not.

And the physical body moves around within the Self but the Self is always unmoving. Being everywhere, the Self is stillness.

Of course there is still the physical distinction and separation between the physical body looking at the apple on the table and the apple itself.

And Consciousness continues to function in a localised manner through the physical body, thus viewing the apple on the table and the rest of the room from the perspective of the physical body.

But Consciousness looking through the eyes also see the presence of the Self everywhere. And the apple on the table is a manifestation within the Self without interrupting the all-pervasiveness of the Self. There is limitless Being within which all things arise.

Peace