A question

[Presence]

Hi Folks,

I was hoping someone here might help me out with a question. I love Ramana Maharshi and one of the things he is famous for saying is, "You are not the doer." I understand this from the perspective of non-duality. But my question is, how does this work with reincarnation and working through our karma? We are "doers" in that sense, right? We're trying to make good choices and do good things. So how does that fit with Ramana Maharshi saying we are not the doers? Appreciate any thoughts you might have on this. Thank you!

[kralaro]

Taking inspiration from the Gita, i say why bother about karma.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Presence

... how does this work with reincarnation and working through our karma? We are "doers" in that sense, right?
...So how does that fit with Ramana Maharshi saying we are not the doers?

Oh boy - so many ways how to talk on this are going on in my head!
It's an exciting question. And so many will come at it from all directions - which will be fun. :)
Ramana understood, through his direct exp, that All is One...there is Only One. Many have exp'd this, also.
Ramana was ready to maintain it, tho! :)

We, (ok, following Forum parameters:''IMO")..we seem or appear as individual beings...and we are - 'sort of'. We aren't puppets.
..................
I wrote 4 more paragraphs I deleted - this is an enormous topic and can get very involved...it's like covering:
Why do we exist? What are we doing here? Who is the Creator? What is His purpose?

It could be a Chapter of pages in a book.
Maybe someone could take over from here? LOL!

[FallingLeaves]

as far as not being puppets go...

i find that i normally have this 'feeling'. The particular feeling I have means I am being a 'doer' and sometimes I emphasize that by 'doing difficult stuff'.

but i can easily get into a state where I have another 'feeling' entirely. It is like, I'm being moved by outside forces, not having my own volition. That is interesting too. Although some might protest and call it the motion of 'demons' for example...

But, depending on which feeling I choose as 'THE ONE TRUE FEELING (TM)' and try to avoid the other I'm going to tell you completely different stories about the relationship to myself and reality.

In one case I'm going to say everyone is doing stuff and can never stop; in the other case I'm going to say noone is doing anything and can ever start.

And I'm of course going to base my future activities on what I've just chosen to say... and base my relationships with others on what I've chosen as well.

But I never see that I have a choice that I can accept both, because I know the idea of 'THE ONE TRUE FEELING (TM)' reigns supreme....

[sky]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

but i can easily get into a state where I have another 'feeling' entirely. It is like, I'm being moved by outside forces, not having my own volition. That is interesting too.

It's very interesting and I know exactly what you mean through my own experiences. I personally think it's the 'unconscious mind' which is inaccessible to the 'conscious mind' but influences our judgement and behaviour. Just my opinion though.....

[kralaro]

FallingLeaves and sky, both science and Lord Krishna agree with your experiences. In science, yes decision making has been theoretically considered deterministic but then they have done experiments and found that the decision is already formed in the unconscious mind before the person decides. And Lord Krishna:
https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...10&postcount=8
It's a relief to me that the show is being run by God, everything is perfect.

[kralaro]

I got back to reading my book and coincidentally this came up, i too am reading it for the first time, i guess i'm supposed to share it with you guys:

The rishis are the puppeteers, and all other beings in the universe, mortal and immortal, are their puppets. The rishis go around creating rnas for people to work off, to bind people down and help them progress. If you want to quit being a puppet, you must perform sadhana.

"rnas" mean debts of karmas. "rishi", i can't define these great beings but i guess "seer". "sadhana" = spiritual practice.

[Miss Hepburn]

FL, What does (TM) mean here? All I can think is - it is a Transcendental Meditation phrase?
Thanks Kralaro - cuz I had never seen the word 'rnas'.

KARMA - My take: In order for us to go Home or back to the bosom of the Divine where we came from, our Source
or Heaven...etc...
we must be pure of so many things like distractions and desires that have to be 'smoothed out'.
I think of us as a rough rock...tumbling in the ocean until it is SO smooth...the 'tumbling'
is our diff lives as we smooth out our rough edges. Yay.
(Never a punishment, I will add.) Smooth being a metaphor for pure or purity.

I am aware this has not yet explained the 'Why?'....why is there this tumbling towards purity, called karma in diff lives,
when we are not really the 'doer'?
That's a bit more advanced....maybe someone else will step in.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

FL, What does (TM) mean here? All I can think is - it is a Transcendental Meditation phrase?

i was trying to be funny but fell flat on my face lol... I was meaning it as 'trade mark'.
Like 'the one and only true feeling that I only want to feel forever, trademark' lol...

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

i was trying to be funny but fell flat on my face lol... I was meaning it as 'trade mark'.
Like 'the one and only true feeling that I only want to feel forever, trademark' lol...

I see, thanks. Went over my head.
You could try (TM)...might work better, but when it is actually Trademarked. :)