Consciousness Has Appearance of Substance. CHAOS

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I read people forcing lucid and I’m surprised, because immediately, I feel control is the very thing we are letting go of.

Gosh we are on the same page..

One of my practices is do-nothing meditation. Nothing is attended as an object of meditation. It's also called Shikintaza also known as Just Sitting. It's most common in Zen Buddhism but all paths have something similar. Jiddu Krishnamurti (Vedanta/Theosophy) called it Choiceless Awareness. Jon Kabat-Zinn (Tibetan Buddhism) calls it Resting in Awareness.

It's a wide open awareness not constricted to an object like breath, bodily sensation, mantra, etc. Instead it's simply noticing when one slips into doership of any kind, even being a meditator and that is let go. If letting go becomes a doing it's letting go of letting go.

Funny thing is I would get into a very deep state sometimes, and I never understood its significance until my first lucid waking experience and then it was obvious. Same state only in mediation it was with no objects (experience of absence) and while awake it was realizing that state is ever present, even when engaged in all sorts of action.

Hence seeing inaction in action and action in inaction.

One way I think of it is it's a difference of perspective, from the Ego's perspective of I am conscious to Consciousness Itself that witnesses Ego's machinations and appropriations. A shift from being the face's reflection in the mirror to the Face itself, if that makes sense. It's hard (read impossible!) to fully describe or explain with words.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

Hence seeing inaction in action and action in inaction.

One way I think of it is it's a difference of perspective, from the Ego's perspective of I am conscious to Consciousness Itself that witnesses Ego's machinations and appropriations. A shift from being the face's reflection in the mirror to the Face itself, if that makes sense. It's hard (read impossible!) to fully describe or explain with words.

That makes sense to me. Your process in different forms has allowed you to see the relationship to waking reality and becoming all that as your own grounded presence.

When you say non doing in meditation, or non doership, I relate that to full immersion, which means completely letting go, opening fully, so it definitely becomes a natural expansive experience in this way, without force or effort as waking reality.

I understand what you’re conveying re becoming the face in the mirror as the face itself. I’ve journeyed through that to understand myself in this way.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Kind of reminds me of how some say 70% to 90% of the universe is dark energy/dark matter. And we have no idea what it is.

But more than letting people figure it out. Once all reality is let go, what remains is the pure unconditional freedom of pure limitless/boundless consciousness. So in a sense, it is the total lack of effort, that reveals the greatest and most powerful and absolute of freedoms.

That was profound to read. It’s amazing you have articulated so much and it’s definitely weaving an understanding to my own experience in those things you’re showing.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by God-Like

The thing is that everyone has an understanding of what words mean or point too.

Some differ completely with one and other and yet declare that reality is like this and not like that. This happens when different understanding are had.

This is why you can have a bunch of self realised dudes saying the opposite and proclaiming this or that about Consciousness or whatever.

This happens because of the many different philosophies or schools. One philosophy or school believes one thing while another philosophy or school believes something else about the same thing. Sometimes, people in the same philosophy or school do not agree with each other about the same thing. Some people mixes and matches different philosophies or schools together, and their foundation(s) become a hot mess, all over the place.

Originally Posted by God-Like

What's that say about what is actually realised? That life is but a dream?

Well a dream has subjective meaning it's not realised.

Yes, the average person relates dreams to sleeping, and not to reality and dreams have subjective meaning of reality, this is why there are dream interpreters.

I do understand the dream analogy, but the point that the dream analogy makes could be made clearer by saying something like realize that I am not separate from all that is.

I do not remember 99% of my dreams, if i do dream.

Edit: In relation to the different meanigs and understanding in Advaita Vedanta or non-duality, there are 2 foudational ways that people view the physical universe, as it relates to Brahman. 1. Pariṇāmavāda-the universe is a real transformation or manifestation (parinama) of Brahman. or 2. Vivartavāda- the universe is an illusory transformation or manifestation of Brahman. Supposedly, all of Brahman's transformations or manifestations, must ultimately be acknowledged as unreal, illusory or as a dream before the individual self can be liberated ( this requires the belief that the individual self is seperate from Brahman). Because of this, people can not realize that their I am is not separate from Brahman, as I have stated above.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I do understand the dream analogy, but the point that the dream analogy makes could be made clearer by saying something like realize that I am not separate from all that is.

.

That's basically it isn't it. Everything else from that realisation is speculation.

Analogies are analogies, metaphors are metaphors.

When we speak about absolute realities then analogies and metaphors are just that.

It's easy to cross then line and make out analogies are actualities.

When we dissect what a normal dream is or refers and how it manifests into visuals then one can see it doesn't fit the bill in our physical experience.


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

This happens because of the many different philosophies or schools. One philosophy or school believes one thing while another philosophy or school believes something else about the same thing. Sometimes, people in the same philosophy or school do not agree with each other about the same thing.

I think you and I have witnessed this by what some say. There does seem to be a pattern of beliefs had that reflect one school of teaching or another.

There should be something noticed in these regards by those that are simply observing such teachings. How can absolute truths reflect the opposite depending on what school of thought is followed.


x daz x

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Your process in different forms has allowed you to see the relationship to waking reality and becoming all that as your own grounded presence.

Yup, grounded presence. One way I look at it is from the perspective of Mandukya Upanishad.

There are the three states of mind: waking, dreaming and deep sleep. Then there's the Fourth (Turyia AKA unitary Consciousness - in effect the silent Witness). The three states of mind arise, appear and subside, but not the Fourth. It is ever-present, undergirding and permeating the three states of mind. It's the Intrinsic whereas the three states are all extrinsic. It can be noticed in a very intimate way and not only in deep meditation, however in my opinion recognizing It first in deep meditation helps recognizing It in other mind states.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by God-Like

That's basically it isn't it. Everything else from that realisation is speculation.

Exellent point there Daz.