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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #21  
Old 24-09-2022, 08:44 AM
O K Viswanath O K Viswanath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traceyacey12
Is it possible to engage in duality (generally worldly affairs and stuff of the ego) and at the same time be as firmly planted as possible as a human in non-duality? And reap the benefits of the non-dual orientation, such as peace and I guess manifestation?

Never care (appreciate or depreciate) how you reside/act. Never think how one acts or what kind of action takes/took/will take place. That is reaping the benefits of non-dual orientation.

Namaste.
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  #22  
Old 24-11-2022, 11:02 AM
charly233 charly233 is offline
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In my opinion nonduality includes duality. And duality is always ultimately nondual. A so called nonduality that denies duality is massively dualistic. Someone who is immersed in apparent duality is in fact a manifestation of nonduality. Everything is equally dualistic and nondualistic.
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  #23  
Old 24-11-2022, 12:27 PM
O K Viswanath O K Viswanath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charly233
In my opinion nonduality includes duality. And duality is always ultimately nondual. A so called nonduality that denies duality is massively dualistic. Someone who is immersed in apparent duality is in fact a manifestation of nonduality. Everything is equally dualistic and nondualistic.

Hi... I have a doubt here and may you please clarify the doubt, so that I might learn what you try to convey.

Can "Manifestation of Non-duality" be called as "Duality"?
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  #24  
Old 24-11-2022, 12:53 PM
charly233 charly233 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O K Viswanath

Can "Manifestation of Non-duality" be called as "Duality"?

Thanks for your question. I think maybe what I am trying to say is that there are extreme forms of so-called nonduality that seek to deny the dualistic aspect of things. For me you can't have nonduality without duality. The world of duality may be an illusionary part of the dream world but it is a necessary part.

I am not sure if I have answered your question. I am trying to talk about stuff that I don't really understand. I have had certain what could possibly be called non dual experiences that are beyond my ability to comprehend logically.

In talking about this I am attempting to channel from my higher Self.

I am not quite sure that I know what I am talking about.
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  #25  
Old 24-11-2022, 01:41 PM
O K Viswanath O K Viswanath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charly233
Thanks for your question. I think maybe what I am trying to say is that there are extreme forms of so-called nonduality that seek to deny the dualistic aspect of things. For me you can't have nonduality without duality. The world of duality may be an illusionary part of the dream world but it is a necessary part..

Thanks for the clarification. It's okay to share even if you don't know what you are talking about.

May you please go on and explain "what is duality?" and "why it is necessary?". Because I couldn't grasp what is the meaning of duality, and so to compare with nonduality. Is world/dream duality? I don't know what is the standard to call these as duality. Please explain and clarify.

Thanks.
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  #26  
Old 24-11-2022, 03:11 PM
charly233 charly233 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O K Viswanath
It's okay to share even if you don't know what you are talking about.
May you please go on and explain "what is duality?" and "why it is necessary?". Because I couldn't grasp what is the meaning of duality, and so to compare with nonduality. Is world/dream duality? I don't know what is the standard to call these as duality. Please explain and clarify.
No problem. LOL.

I feel that duality is ultimately separation from God. Under duality we have the experience of a separate god lording it over separate and puny humans. Whilst this separation is an illusion it serves the function of positing god as "other" so that she or he may be worshipped and adored as if she was separate.

In reality for me everyone is god and there is no separation and no other. But I find it is beneficial to kind of pretend that god is separate in order to love her/him.

I'm not sure if this makes any sense. This kind of stuff is beyond my powers of comprehension.

The words "duality" and "nonduality" are just words. To attempt to use words like this is itself a movement into the duality. For me such words mean whatever you want them to mean.

What matters is not how I define duality/nonduality but what they mean to you.
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  #27  
Old 24-11-2022, 03:46 PM
O K Viswanath O K Viswanath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charly233
I feel that duality is ultimately separation from God..... Whilst this separation is an illusion it serves the function of positing god as "other" so that she or he may be worshipped and adored as if she was separate.

Okay. So, this positing serves a purpose. Fine.
Now, do you feel that Duality(as "other") is there in real Devotion? Isn't devotees lose the identity of "I"(subject) and only God remains in pure devotion?
(Isn't pure devotion - Thinking God, Singing about God, Loving God, Serving God, God-God-God, and NO conscious of "I/me"?)

Also, just because this illusionizing serves the purpose, does that mean duality is there? Are we comparing "Real Duality" with "No/Non-Duality" (or) comparing "Illusionized Duality" with "Non-Duality", and say both are there?
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  #28  
Old 24-11-2022, 03:49 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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on explaining duality, post 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by charly233
...Under duality we have the experience of a separate god lording it over separate and puny humans.
Hi,
I was surprised to read the words 'lording it over' us.
Let's talk about that. :)
(That's not how I see anything, that's why I ask how you see it.)
I would say that is how people in the past have portrayed God, yes.
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru.


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  #29  
Old 24-11-2022, 04:23 PM
charly233 charly233 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O K Viswanath
Okay. So, this positing serves a purpose. Fine.
Now, do you feel that Duality(as "other") is there in real Devotion? Isn't devotees lose the identity of "I"(subject) and only God remains in pure devotion?
(Isn't pure devotion - Thinking God, Singing about God, Loving God, Serving God, God-God-God, and NO conscious of "I/me"?)

Also, just because this illusionizing serves the purpose, does that mean duality is there? Are we comparing "Real Duality" with "No/Non-Duality" (or) comparing "Illusionized Duality" with "Non-Duality", and say both are there?

Yes. I am sure that for some people there is pure devotion and no sense at all of I/me. I may have had a glimpse of this myself. But for me there is still a tiny element of separation that makes the devotion possible. It is quite likely that this way of experiencing things represents a limitation on my behalf. There is always something new to be learnt.


Yes you have got me thinking here. Maybe there is no duality ultimately. Maybe my feeling that there is a need for duality indicates that there are deeper realisations for me to discover. I can only speak of my own experience as I am now.
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  #30  
Old 24-11-2022, 04:29 PM
charly233 charly233 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Hi,
I was surprised to read the words 'lording it over' us.
Let's talk about that. :)
(That's not how I see anything, that's why I ask how you see it.)
I would say that is how people in the past have portrayed God, yes.

Hmm. I agree with you. To say that god "lords" it over us even in the illusion is incorrect. The fact that I put it that way just shows that my fundamentalist conditioning has not yet been entirely eradicated.
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