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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #11  
Old 23-09-2022, 01:03 AM
Geeta Geeta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Too many Hindi or Sanskrit words for me.
It is, tho, much appreciated definitions are said along with the foreign words.
Noted!...

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  #12  
Old 23-09-2022, 01:09 AM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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jivanwhat? ...just another foreign word on an English Forum ..might as well be Spanish.

Example: A title could include 'Non-dualism' ---but be in the Hinduism Section...then all the Sanskrit words
would be fine and appropriate, imo. Hindi words have a home there. :)
Notice , I'm not moving the thread over there and I'm not speaking as a Mod, private citizen!
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru.


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  #13  
Old 23-09-2022, 01:20 AM
Ewwerrin Ewwerrin is offline
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Just sharing my perspective here, based on my experiences. Maybe food for thought, maybe more, I dont know.

Gabriel, also known as the first light of the Absolute, or first creation, or first movement, or first reflection, or first vibration or first self resonance, or first expression, or primary creation/creating, or primary consciousness expression, which can be termed as the first dimension (di-mension/duality), in my limitted experience and ability to communicate, is beyond time and space, and experiences the creation, vibrationally, as all is one and one is all, fractally, in expansion also in and of resolution/realisation/self-realisation, beyond human definitions of choice/no-choice, in very paradoxical ways, where the first realisation of this first "being in and of becoming" that is called gabriel, is linearly explained, but it is not necesserily a linear thing/realm. And it is explained that gabriel is shown almost as if existence expresses through gabriel the realisation of the somewhat heaven that leads to total hell and the somewhat hell that leads to total heaven, these are intertwined like yin and yang, and infinite, extensionally, in secondary aspect of existence, (duality is first aspect/dimension). The hell and heaven is second creation/second dimension/realisation, but might also be called first realisation through gabriel/light. But gabriel just first creation, not beingness itself. Or rather than just gabriel we can call it light of existence realising itself, as being existence, as CREATING rather than creation. Because it is about change. Unbound.

Now, if one assumes that consciousness is nondual absolute unchanging, and then the first light/change that arises in this consciousness is often referred to as mind (non-physical, etheric, imagination, dynamic, vibrational, atmospherical). But I think Gabriel might even represent something more subtle than mind, or maybe the most sublimely subtle version of mind, the first idea, the first movement or awakening of existence, that realises itself, as a movement, or uniqueness extending into uniqueness as itself. More subtle than movement of mind. The most subtle version of what humans call mind. That first idea, can be approached in infinite ways, like eternally experiencing a new version of it. Cannot retrace it, because the very idea of retracing comes from it.

The question is, who or what created this Gabriel/Mind/Change or who caused vibration of consciousness and extending into and through boundless unlimitted self resonance? And what is the purpose? In my limitted lifetime of experience, I always thought that maybe, the goal of Gabriel/change/consciousness extending self realisation, is to find another Absolute, but such a thing is not possible, that is the paradox of my limitted ability to understand. But since the impossibility cannot be proven then the very proving of it being impossible is an eternal process that never ends. It is like the idea of all is one, I am all one, I am allone, I am al one, I am alone, but... if there exists another one, then I can only find the other one, as the only one that exists, that I am. (my very assuming/relative/vague/generalised/approximated/biased thoughts, not absolute at all, just as a random example) And there is always eternally, beyond time and space, the choice and ABILITY to activate gabriel, or what some call samaddhi, or some call it, or awakening/creation/expression/self resonance/mind/change/light/vibration/infinitelyextendingselfresonance.
And because eternity is SO ETERNAL it is inevitable that this choice is eventually always made to return/extend back into time and space, for the eternal EXTENSIONING of the absolute as it self through itself, like the idea of creating gabriel as the light of the absolute which inevitably realises the fractal nature of the infinite light that expands dimensionally and resolutionarily, into the creation of all that exists like big bang or samadhi or all the infinite dimensions of all is one and one is all. And all the elements of all that exists.

As a result there is infinite variety, motion, change, and thus it can be experienced as infinite dualities/dimensions which are all inseperably one thing, but infinite.
It is all made out of one consciousness or one being maybe even, that is SO UNLIMITTED, that its tiniest intention/activation eternally instantly infinitely extends and expresses out into the absolute infinite boundariless limitations of the absolute one existence. But because we are speaking linearly here and from time/space, it causes allot of confusion.

This happens dimensionally and vibrationally. Like the idea of the image that is called a "blivit", like the two portrusions that is actually three portrusions, or is it? A dimensional shift of perspective. In the same way, all is one but this one being is actually also infinite things, without even needing to become it, and yet, it can seem changing without even needing to change. Just like you see two portrusions in a blivit that is actually three. It can be two and yet it is three. and they are literally the same thing. This image called blivit. If I am allowed to share a link to the image here:
https://petervan.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/blivit.png
There is no limit to how much it can be. And thus, the "other than self" can be infinitely found within itself and even as itself, without requiring change. But that is my human description of this idea. Using limitted human words. This human will "die" because there is not just this human, and there is not just "death". These are just ideas.

Vibrations is what all these things are. And so it is assumed that vibrations are dual in nature, but if you look at the sine wave, the upper and lower side are actually two aspects of one thing. They are all one thing. In the same way, gabriel is like the light that either is of the one or it is atleast bound by the one absolute. So relativity is the universal response that vibration has to itself. So its duality right? But it is UNIVERSAL in duality. And that is what makes it all One. And also in expansion/extension of absolute unchanging uniqueness.

These are dimensional shifts of perspective, and when you realise that which governs all dimensions is nondual, existence itself, not by subjugation but by BEING, then you realise that all dimensions are actually all of them, ALL INSEPERABLE. Infinite dimensions, all one thing, and infinitely extendable. Meaning every single thing exists in every single thing and all is infinite. There is no end. No beginning. Even the awareness of all the change and all change, all one unchanging thing. And yet these are just words, because without limit, no description will ever be absolutely true. It is truely infinite. And in that sense, all dualities are just reminders of infinity, and infinite absolute unchanging UNIQUENESS, and therefor oneness or (here=now)ness. So for example, dark and light seem like a duality, but in reality are unique and you can repeat it infinite times and it will never ever be the same thing, it will always be slightly unique, and thus also absolutely unique. And therefor all change, all mind, all light or creation or self resonance or realisation, they are all forever unique. Even explaining elementarily and 2 dimensionally, in linear time and space communication, it is expressed as infinite self extension/resolution. And this uniqueness of existence has never become anything. Meaning at this level, change does not exist. Even the idea we have about it, that seem changing, are infact also the same infinite uniqueness. These words are irrelevant because they just talk about the changing thoughts.

Is this enough to unite the world? Well, no, because unity and non unity are both equally infinitely unique. So in that sense, the very "trying to unite it" and thus never succeeding, is also equally infinitely unique! It's all the same one thing. Cannot unite that which already is one and always has been one. And there may be a sense of total surrender also to the desire of never surrendering. These words mean absolutely nothing and yet they are everything. Both at the same time. And furthermore, there exists no time, it is all one.

So cannot say it has always been one and always will be. It simply is all one.


Now to my dual experience which approached nonduality also. Is the experience where I realised the eternal infinite duality of all things, my entire life, everything I have ever known, as the most painful deepest most powerful despair, of conflict and opposition. Like the eternally unavoidable inescapable duality of eternal everlasting contradiction, forever eternally inescapably ever expanding and extending into more and more and more duality. Forever recurring in new and more and greater ways, inevitable and unavoidable and unstoppable. AND REALISING IN THAT MOMENT, THIS PAIN HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE. IT HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING. IT HAS TO BE RELATIVE TO SOMETHING. And in that moment, suddenly realising in and of all of that pain of such depth of despair, that it was the very same bliss or joy, of which it is inseperable. There is a magnetic, transdimensional (like the blivit) realisation of "two opposite ends of the same thing." And sudden freedom to shift from one polarity to another, and realising it is the same thing.

Meaning, the reason it was so painful, is because it was connected to something that is so immensely good. Wasn't just connected, it was INSEPERABLY ONE THING. And it is that inseperability that makes it so painful. And even trying to unite it, as if it is not already perfectly one thing as it is, is also resistance to the already inseperability of it.

And so that pain is like all of that bliss that I desire to realise and I ask for it and so I receive it, but it flows through resistance and that resistance is what causes me to experience all of that bliss as such IMMEASURABLY IMMENSE PAIN AND SUFFERING. But the desire to experience it is SO IMMENSELY POWERFULLY STRONG, that in that experience I just coughed a glimpse of that bliss, that then caused all these experiences to dissipate. And I said, it is there, it is there, it is there... It is there. It exists... and then there was balance and neutrality and normal life experience. And it vanished into the future. Because the truth is that "it is here, it is here, it is here, it is now..."

What was the path of least resistance that allowed me to get a glimpse? The idea of "the future". I wasn't able to let go of everything and merge with that bliss, because of resistance, but the glimpse vanished into the future and it was then gone. But I obviously experienced it in the present. And the pain of what was realised to be right here and now, was realised to be all of that which was good. And I realised it in the present, as the present, through the entertainment of the idea that "all of this pain might actually be a good thing." And ofcourse I couldent accept it, so all those good things vanished into the future. Identity attached to time.

So all those good things that I have experienced in my life, was experienced only through a WILLINGNESS to experience negative things. Without that willingness, pain can come but it just goes away. The goodness of it isn't realised. Because there is no believe that it can be good. And without that believe, the goodness of it cannot be realised. "oh no, the pain is here again." and then there is avoidance and resistance and pain. However, the negative will always be connected to or inseperable from a positive thing.

The problem is that pain can also increase resistance. But if the possibility, or path of least resistance, to realisation, is not there, then the pain doesnt come. So no fear is necessery, because if fear is there, it means you are ready.

It is often realised, that the true self has actually been causing the pain. But that is only after the true self has not just been realised, but has been realised to BE THE SELF. And then it is realised that the pain is actually a good thing that is being reminded by the self to itself. But in the moment of resistance, there is just the experience of pain/negative. And in that experience of the negative it is realised that there is thus something positive. But the only CONCEPT we have for that which is good, is the inability to know it in that moment, as the unknowing or unknown, as a negative thing. So it is positive but we experience it through a negative lackful limitted concept. And when that limitted concept is accepted and trusted or allowed, through willingness, then the goodness becomes realised, or just allowed to become realised.

There is something that I want to know here, but I just KNOW, I KNOW that I dont know it. So the good thing is right here and now in this negativity, but I just know that I dont know it. The negativity IS the positivity. Without the positive there wouldent even be the ability to know that one doesnt know. It is always simultaneously present. Not just simultaneously present. It IS one thing. It isn't just always perfectly balanced, it IS one thing. When there is allot of darkness, the light is always small, but the small light is SO BIG, that it requires allot of darkness to focus on it, to emphasise it. To help the consciousness realise it. Those negatives are like calibrations, help, assistence, clarifiers. And when that is allowed, everything vanishes and then there is just that light. When all hope is lost, everything vanishes and there is only something left which has never been experienced before. And that is the new thing. The intended realisation. It is even beyond the idea of new. Only comes after total surrender.

When one is so afraid of duality, all that is left is just duality, and in that duality, there is no more ability to escape it, it just is and when surrendered totaly also to the resistance to that duality, the source of it is realised. Because that duality and even the fighting of it, is no longer fought against, it is completely allowed to be what it is, then there is just the Source of it.

For example, "who is causing me all of this pain? I don't know, I want to know, but I can never know. It is endless, it is infinite, it is unknowable. It is never ending. It is eternal. And when one surrenders TOTALLY to the unknowability of it. The unknowability of it is REALISED. And it has always been. I open my hands and my mouth and there is just an expressionlessness. It has always been? It just is. Things change but there is an unchangingness to all of it.

And this absolute beingness is way better to me than talking about it. The very idea that I can talk about it, is irrelevant. It is not prior to or after. There is an absence of duality/change, and so it is peace. Imagine the idea that sounds are painful, and so when someone says "peace" with their voice, it is experienced as painful. Hehehe, it is even beyond the word or sound of peace. It is just absolute existence. Without being any thing, it is the beingness of all things.
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  #14  
Old 23-09-2022, 02:26 AM
traceyacey12 traceyacey12 is offline
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I found the Hindi reference helpful, thanks Geeta

And lol Ewwerrin. It's like you've been reading all of my recent posts and have answered them in this one post. I like it! Makes sense :) Now to apply it to my life.

I've never had a nondual realization btw but my inquiries have led me to this point. Unlike how I was feeling this past summer, I now hope to be able to experience it. Seems normal and natural to me now lol

Thanks everyone once again :)
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  #15  
Old 23-09-2022, 10:19 AM
Native spirit Native spirit is offline
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This is an English speaking forum. when you type in a Different Language
people cant understand what you are saying.
So please keep it to English

Namaste
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  #16  
Old 23-09-2022, 07:36 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traceyacey12

Is it possible to engage in duality (generally worldly affairs and stuff of the ego) and at the same time be as firmly planted as possible as a human in non-duality? And reap the benefits of the non-dual orientation, such as peace and I guess manifestation?

Depends on what anyone defines stuff .

In my eyes there is self of the mind and there is no self beyond .

You can't have both at the same time .


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  #17  
Old 23-09-2022, 07:53 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Actually it makes more sense here as non-duality crosses traditions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Sufism, Christian Mysticism, etc...) and there are far more non-non-dual and qualified monism Hindu traditions.
You are correct. The original question is just fine here. :)
It's later when posters get into the Sanskrit words.
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru.


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  #18  
Old 23-09-2022, 08:17 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traceyacey12
Is it possible to engage in duality (generally worldly affairs and stuff of the ego) and at the same time be as firmly planted as possible as a human in non-duality? And reap the benefits of the non-dual orientation, such as peace ...?
Hi, tracey, Let's see if this helps - 2 examples.
Paul was locked up in a dungeon. Back then they were very bad - there a stories around the Bible, very very horrible conditions.
Can't get too much more 'stuck in this material world'!
And yet, he was in a state of grace writing letters.
So here he was with 2 situations and his mind and heart were on talking about Jesus.

When we are in love - say with our newborn, doesn't have to be romantic...
we can be at work all day - maybe in intense meetings, maybe being out in the cold being a trash guy.
BUT, where is our focus, where is our heart of hearts...it's dreaming and remembering and thinking about
when we get home to hold our loved one.

Paul said to the Colossians, while imprisoned in Rome - "Focus on the things above and not the things on the earth."
So can we be part of this world and have our heart of hearts focused on something else...say,
that what we are seeing in front of us is part of a Whole ---all a Play of the Creators?
Can we be detached in this 3rd Dimension understanding as we walk down the street of what the 'situation' really is;
something not really such a part of this world?

Oh yeah.
And many of us do it and have done it.
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru.


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  #19  
Old 24-09-2022, 02:15 AM
movingalways movingalways is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeta
Interesting! I have never read Rupert Spira till now but some of my friends are of the opinion that Rupert's views are quite different than the Advaita Vedanta's teachings.

Rupert came from the classical Advaita tradition to the direct path where through self inquiry alone one is able to realize their true nature as awareness. Via the direct path, duality is a non issue.

In this video Rupert speaks of how one (including himself) has great love and devotion for their previous way of understanding non-duality but that a time comes when they need something more expansive such as the direct path offers:

https://youtu.be/fRSHHQPceGU
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  #20  
Old 24-09-2022, 04:46 AM
pixiedust pixiedust is offline
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Thank you for posting this in Non-Duality - this is not a one religion topic by any means.
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