Why is equanimity the 4th Jhana?

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 19 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by JustBe

Even here in these posts there is opportunity to practice equanimity by the response others give. The practice everywhere you are builds a greater ability to balance faster.

Excellent point !

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 19 EXCERPT:



Excellent point !

Thanks for the cheers and love 💖

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

where you eventually see yourself in ‘non reaction’ to each issue that has triggered you previously.

Yep. A lot there. Focus is a biggie, and persistence is important, and more stable equanimity means you can take a lot more.

True, indeed, it's a Buddhist thread, so it involves practice. It's like a reminder that we are practicing, and every experience is an opportunity to practice self-awareness and equanimity of mind. You'd think that would result in that nice spiritual peace, but equanimity gravitates toward inner triggers due to self-exposure - it becomes hard work to stay balanced, and metta becomes more difficult.

I always think it is a great idea when you open this thread to take ten seconds of mindfulness,and 3 seconds of deliberate metta to help you know what you're about and have more generosity toward everyone else. It makes the thread deeper if the practice is happening.

[Maisy]

Oh I found a definition for me: Equanimity. Neither a thought nor an emotion, it is rather the steady conscious realization of reality's transience.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

It makes the thread deeper if the practice is happening.

Yes.

I think discussions that you allow responses to go deeper in yourself, rather than try to make right, wrong or not in alignment to something you believe, do support you to respond with a more concentrated effort and focus that can be both supportive and opening for you to more.

You can witness yourself with what is deeper from withj, rather than what’s going on outside of yourself.

The knowledge or questions, sharing and realisation can become a continuum of your own experience, just by witnessing and dropping deeper into your own being.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Equanimity. Neither a thought nor an emotion, it is rather the steady conscious realization of reality's transience.

Nice. I think I'll adopt that meaning, too.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

rather than what’s going on outside of yourself.

I think it it always best to know what's going on with yourself to a degree you aren't completely overwhelmed by... which requires some close attention, but temptations to follow after your reactions are very strong, so you have to be careful of stuff like that and be more discerning in responses - not just in a thread, but in every scenario.

In our distracted world which involves interdependence, responsibility, obligations and so forth, we don't have the fullness of opportunity. We are never freed from problems and agitations because we have to keep up with everything. We have to live with that and cannot simply dedicate our lives to the true path of purification when we're like, What about the kids etc. But there is some upside in that we can apply as far as possible some mindfulness to what we're doing, and do our best to keep an even keel through life's ups and downs.

I did the long retreats and found the same erratic agitations happen all by themselves without anything else going on, so really, all these constraints of a normal life are not the cause of such torments. The torments are still there if you sit in a quiet meditation hall all day with no external reason for them, but with external noise removed, you can go much deeper into the subtler levels of cause and understand how you generate kamma constantly in your everyday life. It can be surprising to realise how deeply miserable you really are when we usually have that hidden somewhere sub-surface so we can keep going with all of our obligatory things to survive.

Anyway, I don't even know what I'm saying at this point, so I'll leave it there.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I agree with you that seeing it as the "highest" suggests that there has to be a "lowest" as well ... and that is not equanimity in my opinion as well.

I came across the concept of jhanas after years of meditation under my primary spiritual mentor and the Buddhist jhanas were immediately clear to me as a great description of the enlightening process. After discussing them with Buddhist monks in at least 10 different countries, I don't consider any of them to be the "highest" or the "lowest" but just various stages in a very natural process.

From an experiential pragmatic perspective, my understanding of the four jhanas is as follows:

1. The first jhana focuses on thought injection and discursive thought. For example, my primary spiritual mentor would say or do something that was mind-boggling and seemingly absurd at times. When sitting in meditation, that completely absorbed me (a jhana is sometimes described as an "absorption") and I would be so absorbed that 8-9 hours would pass by with absolutely no awareness of elapsed time. Initially, I couldn't believe that 8-9 hours had elapsed as there is no sense of time or body consciousness in a fully absorbed meditation.

2. At some point ... possibly the same day or many many meditation sessions later... there would be a breakthrough, an "Aha Moment". The 2nd jhana is associated with the joy/rapture of that "Aha Moment".

3. That initial reaction of joy, as one experiences when one solves a riddle, eventually mellows into happiness and that is the characteristic associated with the 3rd jhana.

4. Eventually, even the happiness subsides as equanimity manifests as the 4th jhana with an "I can't believe that I didn't realize this sooner as it's so obvious now" attitude.

Hence, "highest" or "lowest" doesn't even seem to apply to the jhanas.

Of course, when one resolves one "riddle" in this manner, there can be yet another ... and another ... riddle to be solved in exactly the same way. Hence, this process can repeat itself over and over again until .....

Equanimity therefore does not necessarily imply enlightenment as meditation does indeed reveal all (that is important to know at that time) ... until the next mind-boggling situation arises and forces one to adjust one's "right view" once again as one gets closer and closer to RIGHT VIEW accompanied by an increasingly awesome, pervasive, unshakeable peace/equanimity.

NOTE: There are some "know-it-all" types who profess equanimity until one watches their responses in certain challenging situations when they suddenly becoming "equanimity-challenged". It is well said that self-realized beings are generally very very quiet while empty barrels make the most noise.

My focus wasn’t on the highest mention at all but more in what the entire post was expressing as a whole about this Jhana.
If you as the one in equanimity are balanced without separating them into two parts, wouldn’t your awareness focus differently?

My feelers went up when you said some ‘know it all types’ .. for some reason I thought he must think in himself some kind of aversion to judge in that way. Then I re read your words and I wondered if your expression in some way conveyed that out loud.

It’s ok though, I’m witnessing myself noticing how I’m thinking about your expression and it’s good reflection for me to move beyond my thoughts.

It’s an old habit, I can read between the lines, but I need to focus more on what is there without getting caught up in myself in this way.

I suspect it detracts from becoming less occupied with unnessary stuff and move deeper into why my mind wants to think that way.


I guess you can think it and not get attached to what arises though?


Let it in, let it go..

Get back to my centre in my being. ��

[sky]

As a solid mass of rock
Is not stirred by the wind,
So a sage is not moved
By praise and blame.
As a deep lake
Is clear and undisturbed,
So a sage becomes clear
Upon hearing the Dharma.
Virtuous people always let go.
They don’t prattle about pleasures and desires.
Touched by happiness and then by suffering,
The sage shows no sign of being elated or depressed.
Dhammapada 81-83.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 18 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by sky

J
I personally see them as being like an onion, each layer reveals another which can't be seen until the previous layer has peeled away. None are higher nor lower, they all exist within each other.....

I agree with you that the Jhanas are a very natural progression ... "like an onion, each layer reveals another which can't be seen until the previous layer has peeled away".

That seems to apply equally well to the four (4) supra-mundane jhanas.