Rama killing Ravana

[alphamind]

I know this might sound very ignorant...but...I have to ask...please enlighten me...

How did Rama get away with killing Ravana? Did He get in trouble? I heard He had to do penance, rituals, etc after it. Was there a law that deemed murder illegal in Threta Yuga?

Different dynamics in that Age obviously, but am asking in simple terms.

[Brian100]

I don't know. I never learned about these stories. I'm more after Love and the here after. . this stuff sounds too complicated for me.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by alphamind

I know this might sound very ignorant...but...I have to ask...please enlighten me...

How did Rama get away with killing Ravana? Did He get in trouble? I heard He had to do penance, rituals, etc after it. Was there a law that deemed murder illegal in Threta Yuga?

Different dynamics in that Age obviously, but am asking in simple terms.

Murder is illegal in all ages and all places . Only people who are authorized like state police , state army and judiciary can be a party to killing anybody in legal ways.

Rama was a sovereign king and in pursuit of his duties , he may have to kill any enemies and punish any one . So nobody except powerful honest thought led rishis can punish him as per their constitution . He simply took it on himself that Ravan was son of a Rishi (brahman - spiritual oriented teaching/preaching community ) and in traditions it is forebidden to kill brahman community (because of the works they do in society) and did the penance in Rameshwar in India.

[Altair]

That sounds really bad. I've not heard of this before. I don't understand why people worship Rama if he killed his wife. Is that something to aspire to or respect or worship? Then again, this kind of ''Look away, ask no questions. Obey the god!'' attitude seems to be common practice with worship of most deities out there.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Altair

That sounds really bad. I've not heard of this before. I don't understand why people worship Rama if he killed his wife. Is that something to aspire to or respect or worship? Then again, this kind of ''Look away, ask no questions. Obey the god!'' attitude seems to be common practice with worship of most deities out there.

Ravana was the ruler of other kingdom who abducted his wife Sita and he killed ravana and freed his wife Sita from ravana . Unlike other kings , he handed over the captured kingdom to his (ravana's ) brother vibhishan without any attached strings . Despite having possibility to marry more than once for kings (like his father Dasharath ) he had remained committed to his wife Sita only lifetime . His love for his wife profound and deep.

Hope this clarifies the history to u .

[Renunciation]

Rama was a Guru. Rama's first mistake was, He was got married to Sita by Vasishtan's instruction, who is a Deva Guru (There are 2 types of Guru.Deva Guru and Brahma Guru.Deva Guru is always under the control of Devas or Devies (deities) and acts upon their instructions, like Sri Rama Krishna Paramahamsa.His Deity was Kaali. Sri Rama was Brahma Guru).

Second mistake was to become a King. A Guru should never be a king. Guru is supposed to control The King.

Third grave mistake was to beheading Shudra Muni Shambhuka as per the custom of that time. and the reason for killing was doing meditation. Shudras were not allowed to do meditation at that time.

Ramayana, the war, was the consequence of these three mistakes. So it's no use going behind that story.In the end Rama walked into the river and drowned to death. It's revealed by The Almighty.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Renunciation

Rama was a Guru. Rama's first mistake was, He was got married to Sita by Vasishtan's instruction, who is a Deva Guru (There are 2 types of Guru.Deva Guru and Brahma Guru.Deva Guru is always under the control of Devas or Devies (deities) and acts upon their instructions, like Sri Rama Krishna Paramahamsa.His Deity was Kaali. Sri Rama was Brahma Guru).

Second mistake was to become a King. A Guru should never be a king. Guru is supposed to control The King.

Third grave mistake was to beheading Shudra Muni Shambhuka as per the custom of that time. and the reason for killing was doing meditation. Shudras were not allowed to do meditation at that time.

Ramayana, the war, was the consequence of these three mistakes. So it's no use going behind that story.In the end Rama walked into the river and drowned to death. It's revealed by The Almighty.

There is not historical truth in your observations and conclusion on alleged mistakes.
1. Rama was King . He was enlightened person (Plato's concept of philosopher king in reality ) but no spiritual teacher/Guru by any stretch of imagination . Guru should not marry is a myth there is not iota of truth . Marriage has a very high SQ . Person marrying has to RENUNCIATE all other members of opposite sex !!

2. Why Guru does not need kingdom is ok . But why he should abdicate kingdom for spirituality . He did abdicate when he was expected as per his father's orders . He did forego 2 kingdom's he won by himself . That's why we consider him God . He was able to do such things in jiffy at will which no small person will be able to do.

3. Shudra Shambuka was feigning penance and not doing his duties . For all your knowledge Rama did ate the tasted half eaten fruits/berries at the place of Shabari - a tribal woman devotee. The very Ravana he killed was son of a Brahman Rishi . So don't invoke biased irrelevant logics here.

Finally u my have heard of Kabir . What he says

गुरू गोविन्द दोऊ खड़े, काके लागूं पांय।
बलिहारी गुरू अपने गोविन्द दियो बताय

This means that Guru always points to God when place of priority is to be chosen . That is the Guru . But in so many posts of your about Guru I have not seen any single pointer to God .It's all criticising without substance and merit and nothing about any real message to think , ponder and learn .

[Renunciation]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

There is not historical truth in your observations and conclusion on alleged mistakes.
1. Rama was King . He was enlightened person (Plato's concept of philosopher king in reality ) but no spiritual teacher/Guru by any stretch of imagination . Guru should not marry is a myth there is not iota of truth . Marriage has a very high SQ . Person marrying has to RENUNCIATE all other members of opposite sex !!

2. Why Guru does not need kingdom is ok . But why he should abdicate kingdom for spirituality . He did abdicate when he was expected as per his father's orders . He did forego 2 kingdom's he won by himself . That's why we consider him God . He was able to do such things in jiffy at will which no small person will be able to do.

3. Shudra Shambuka was feigning penance and not doing his duties . For all your knowledge Rama did ate the tasted half eaten fruits/berries at the place of Shabari - a tribal woman devotee. The very Ravana he killed was son of a Brahman Rishi . So don't invoke biased irrelevant logics here.

Finally u my have heard of Kabir . What he says

गुरू गोविन्द दोऊ खड़े, काके लागूं पांय।
बलिहारी गुरू अपने गोविन्द दियो बताय

This means that Guru always points to God when place of priority is to be chosen . That is the Guru . But in so many posts of your about Guru I have not seen any single pointer to God .It's all criticising without substance and merit and nothing about any real message to think , ponder and learn .

Can you say the state of an enlightened person?

Guru is not engaged or involved in history, legends, myths or gender differences. The stage of being a Guru is completed when that Guru has a Guru and a disciple.That dharma (righteousness) has to be revealed to the disciple. That disciple has to reveal, who Guru is, to the world .

is it possible to show such a Mahathma (noble soul), who could successfully make it ?

Only through this Guru disciples relationship, one can accept the subject being shared.

Have we, who chanted the name of Rama for millions of years, got any knowledge beyond what is said in Ramayana? When Muhammedians and Jesus followers say that they are living as per the instructions recieved from The God through the messengers, common practice all around the world when someone dies among them is to bury the dead body. But what do we do? In different areas, there are different customs. Why did it happen? What does it imply? Did we follow any God's Messengers? Did we honour or respect the messages of those messengers? No.

5200 years ago Lord Krisha came to enlighten the world.He instructed

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
mām evaiṣhyasi satyaṁ te pratijāne priyo ‘si me (Gita 18:65)

'Always think of me, be devoted to me, worship me, and offer obeisance to me. Doing so, you will certainly come to me. This is my pledge to you, for you are very dear to me'

If we had obeyed it, would we have gone behind Rama who lived 1.7 millions years ago (17 lakhs)

Why did and do our country have to beg infront of others, even though, once we were most wealthiest and most powerful country that was able to rule the world? Because we didn't honour and obey Lord Krishna.

If we didn't understand at least this fact, we would have to float around without directions.

What we only need to know is, the way to get enlightened. That can't be attained by following those bygone God's Messengers (Great Souls) as their messages are completely adulterated and twisted. To attain that we have to follow a njaani in present time(The One who has spiritual wisdom).

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
mām evaiṣhyasi satyaṁ te pratijāne priyo ‘si me (Gita 18:65)

Always think of me, be devoted to me, worship me, and offer obeisance to me. Doing so, you will certainly come to me. This is my pledge to you, for you are very dear to me.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Renunciation

Can you say the state of an enlightened person?

Guru is not engaged or involved in history, legends, myths or gender differences. The stage of being a Guru is completed when that Guru has a Guru and a disciple.That dharma (righteousness) has to be revealed to the disciple. That disciple has to reveal, who Guru is, to the world .

is it possible to show such a Mahathma (noble soul), who could successfully make it ?

Only through this Guru disciples relationship, one can accept the subject being shared.

Have we, who chanted the name of Rama for millions of years, got any knowledge beyond what is said in Ramayana? When Muhammedians and Jesus followers say that they are living as per the instructions recieved from The God through the messengers, common practice all around the world when someone dies among them is to bury the dead body. But what do we do? In different areas, there are different customs. Why did it happen? What does it imply? Did we follow any God's Messengers? Did we honour or respect the messages of those messengers? No.

5200 years ago Lord Krisha came to enlighten the world.He instructed

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
mām evaiṣhyasi satyaṁ te pratijāne priyo ‘si me (Gita 18:65)

'Always think of me, be devoted to me, worship me, and offer obeisance to me. Doing so, you will certainly come to me. This is my pledge to you, for you are very dear to me'

If we had obeyed it, would we have gone behind Rama who lived 1.7 millions years ago (17 lakhs)

Why did and do our country have to beg infront of others, even though, once we were most wealthiest and most powerful country that was able to rule the world? Because we didn't honour and obey Lord Krishna.

If we didn't understand at least this fact, we would have to float around without directions.

What we only need to know is, the way to get enlightened. That can't be attained by following those bygone God's Messengers (Great Souls) as their messages are completely adulterated and twisted. To attain that we have to follow a njaani in present time(The One who has spiritual wisdom).

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
mām evaiṣhyasi satyaṁ te pratijāne priyo ‘si me (Gita 18:65)

Always think of me, be devoted to me, worship me, and offer obeisance to me. Doing so, you will certainly come to me. This is my pledge to you, for you are very dear to me.

Lot of things are told . Many of it are obvious .Period of Rama is around 10000 years to the best of my knowledge.

Guru (enlightened master) is very important . But the issue is how does one decide on Guru . As by definition (as is evident in Kabir couplet above) , Guru does not advertise and he always point to God when it comes to priority and importance in all dimensions and help people with right orientation. We may see some lineage (hereditary) based gurus . It's ok but it does not deny /eliminate the functional definition of as aforesaid. If the son of a Guru does not have genuine aspects of Guru , we don't consider him Guru.

So there is real problem and dearth of real Gurus and there is problem how one recognise the Guru .

[Renunciation]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

Lot of things are told . Many of it are obvious .Period of Rama is around 10000 years to the best of my knowledge.

Guru (enlightened master) is very important . But the issue is how does one decide on Guru . As by definition (as is evident in Kabir couplet above) , Guru does not advertise and he always point to God when it comes to priority and importance in all dimensions and help people with right orientation. We may see some lineage (hereditary) based gurus . It's ok but it does not deny /eliminate the functional definition of as aforesaid. If the son of a Guru does not have genuine aspects of Guru , we don't consider him Guru.

So there is real problem and dearth of real Gurus and there is problem how one recognise the Guru .

What did world get from The Guru Ramaanandh that only Kabir Das realized? Did we get anything from Kabir Das or Ramanandha Guru, which is worth receiving except the knowledge from the part of the poem below?

सब धरती कागज करूँ, लेखनी सब बनराय
सात समुंदर की मसि करूँ, गुरुगुण लिखा न जाय

Even if the whole earth is transformed into paper with all the big trees made into pens and if the entire water in the seven oceans are transformed into writing ink, even then the glories of the Guru cannot be written. So much is the greatness of the Guru

The greatest tragedy the world witnessed was, not realizing that The Lord Krishna was Guru and didn't realize, that Guru's greatness.

We guess, you understand that we are speaking from the knowledge that knows what Guru's greatness is?

We, humans, can't get the actual facts and knowledge of Krishna's time line or Rama's time line from myths and legends. Only The Guru, who is timeless and can see the time span of distant past and the future, can clarify it. So, we need to find out the Guru beyond time and space. We are talking here about such a Guru. That is Manu Smrithi (remembrance of Manu)