thoughts on doughnut universe.

[weareunity]

Hello all.

Have seen mention of the possibility of the universe --"ours"-- having the shape of a doughnut/donut---of the hole in the middle variety.

Within this shape movement does occur, so it's not like a solid.

A doughnut can spin on an axis through the hole in the centre, like a wheel. It could also spin on an axis joining one "side" to the other.

Neither of the spins require that the centres of rotation are exactly centred in the doughnut configuration--which does not itself need to be a perfect circle anyway---does it?

There seems to me however to be another possibility of spin which I have not seen mentioned in my meagre reading regarding toroidal characteristics ( a torus being the scientific/mathematical name for the doughnut shape ).

This other possibility is spin in the manner of how a smoke ring doughnut rotates upon itself as if repeatedly turning itself inside out when it has been blown out of the smokers mouth.

Seems to me that this type of spin can only happen to a doughnut type configuration where one "end" is connected to the other "end".?

But can this possibility of spin happen simultaneously with the two other types of spin already mentioned?

All this seems far removed from everyday considerations, but, are these characteristics connected with our perceptions regarding dimensions--( not dimensions of size, dimensions as in 3-4---whatever--dimensions )??

Would be both pleased and interested to share thoughts--and more knowledge than I have--on this fascinating subject.

Cheers. X.

[weareunity]

My use of the word "spin" perhaps gives the impression of rapid motion?--and that need not be the case--so "rotate" would be preferable. Since we are also considering possibilities of what could be happening or could happen, then "able to rotate" would be preferable.

It does seem that there is a lot of rotating going on as part of the universe process.

Cheers. X.

[FallingLeaves]

i don't know much about either donuts or science so I was holding my tongue

but now that we are into rotation/circles....

seems like along with paradoxes and some other stuff that im not so very familiar with it is one of the basic thought patterns that people want to deny. Ever heard of 'thoughts going around in circles'? It is a very real thing, and when I do it it seems to affect my energies lol...

people at large tend to want to think life works best by going through C&E in a straight line though so admitting to such can get you on the outside with respect to other people sigh....

another fun thing about circular motion is I can easily spin my body like a top. It seems almost designed to act that way, well if I can get past the immediate discomfort I have from not being used to it and from expecting (again) to be placed on the outside with respect to other people...

I suspect from a children's story i heard long ago there is a certain meditative effect you can get from this lol...

but of course scientists would tell you circular motions/rotations are very important in terms of large objects like planets and suns as well....

[weareunity]

Hello Falling Leaves and all.

Really good to get your personal experiences and thoughts about circles.
Circles seem such powerful and evocative images now and through history--especially early history--- imagine the wonder of coming to understand something of the "natural" cycles of seasons, stars, moon, planets, and so much more---this uncovering could have given the circle a potent symbolism which persists. ---as well as giving those in those societies who were thought capable of prediction regarding cycles great power and prestige--and they themselves were probably? quick to realise the personal advantages to themselves which having access to such knowledge gave---and so " inner circles" of hierarchies of one form or another sprang up to regulate and control both the propogation of such knowledge and those who were thought would best protect the interests of the " inner circles". This particular aspect is not of course the pursuit of knowledge regarding " natural cycles" but is about the creation and sustaining of cycles of cause and consequence which may begin with good intent for the many but can readily become circles of self interest for the few.

The study and understanding of behaviour --especially of our own--becomes ever more crucial as our numbers grow, resources diminish, and consequences of our actions more far reaching/ fundamental. I digress!! ( into the circle of constant personal pondering on such matters).

Digressing in a different direction regarding "the universe"--- if what we mean by "the universe" is expressed loosely as being " all which is",--are we able to know that the universe may be a particular shape and/or that the universe so envisaged may be rotating if we cannot logically be "outside" the universe in order to be enabled to register by observation or other means ?

Digressing further still on a personal matter.
I was today looking at some previous poems in the poetry section which I had forgotten I had written and have only very few and rough record. You kindly replied to one of the earliest in a manner which I much appreciated. Thank you. Good wishes. and

Cheers. X.

[FallingLeaves]

well personally, one of my notices in this lifetime is that a lot of things seem to me to be whatever it is I want to make of them.

I don't know if this is because the universe actually adapts to my thoughts, or because I just tint my own glasses to see the colors I want to see.

But that along with continually getting burned, it does make me leary of taking any thoughts I might have of what this place is seriously...

of course it has crossed my mind I will possibly never get out of that situation, for me it will always seem to be whatever I take it to be? That I will never know objectively what anything IS beyond whatever I might THINK it is?

So that is a really big change in my outlook, not having to say this place is such and such and in response I've got to do this and this or be so and so.

That doesn't mean I can have just any old thing I might dream up, just takes away some of the chains I was putting on when I was saying it can't be certain ways just because people want to agree to that.

anywho... as far as cliques and inner circles... i met a taoist master once and he was quick to point out, one of the things people most like to do is form little groups, and keep other people out of those groups. So it is kinda natural that people would like to study certain things but keep others from having that same knowledge.... you see it still today where those who get an education sometimes feel a little more snobbish than those who don't.... Lol.

But on the other hand we have god saying there is nothing that is hidden that won't come to light, and we have jesus saying 'you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free'. So even if we are going to ignore the fact that god also said the wisdom of men is just ridiculous in his eyes, we still have direct statements saying, that those who are above all those who put themselves above the rest of us are very much on the side, of giving us what we need as the time becomes right. Instead of endlessly squirreling away food for the future in hidden places... lest the infidels invade and what was no longer is....

yes understanding ourselves, especially ourselves... is critical if we want to progress. At least I think so. For some of us there is such an intense need to know things! And it somehow softens the blows that life gives sometimes... for me the fact I have to do without certain things would just be completely unbearable if I didn't have a story as to why... as well if i get honest enough to realize that I'm only getting back what I put out, there is a chance to learn compassion for the people I have treated badly in the past.

Yeah all which is is definitely an interesting topic, I think sometimes universe could mean that.... other times i think universes might be like bodies, and well there are a lot of people lol....

but as far as all which is... i suspect in times past people were able to see a lot of things through meditation, for example the incredible precision that the templars showed in some of their long-distance undertakings was probably in part due to meditations they performed. And before that people were probably seeing things similar to what scientists now have to build microscopes and telescopes for.... and getting 'out' of the universe maybe to see it from outside as well as becoming 'one' with the universe... and lots of other stuff I couldn't even conjecture about.

I've heard that certain buildings, for example the kings pyramid at giza, were designed in part to facilitate such meditations..... and here is one of those places I like to be cautious, just saying it seems designed in part for that doesn't mean to me there couldn't be other things it was designed for as well... so even though we've got several seemingly confliciting versions people are promoting as to what the pyramids for example 'are' that doesn't mean any of them give anything like a complete picture... at least not in and of themselves...

thank you for your kind words, it is nice to hear such sometimes.

[weareunity]

Hello FallingLeaves.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and feelings in a manner which I find allows for agreeable shared exploration of possibilities---whilst at the same time offering glimpses of the conditions and circumstances of your life. Glimpses which do not necessarily need elaboration but are sufficient in themselves to serve as reminder--when reminding is needed--that we all have back stories silently shaping our life journeys and perspectives.

As for exploration--Whilst we think that exploration must have some objective then perhaps we are not really exploring at all?? but searching for certainty??an understandable endeavour not to be judged in itself right or wrong but having consequences nevertheless??

Cheers. X.

[winter light]

Hi weareunity, I think your observations of the significance of the toroid shape in nature are very good. They are consistent what I found in the books by Walter Russell and he explains the nature of the universe like no one else.

Very briefly, his model of the universe all matter is centered around gravity shafts rather than a center points. Then what we see as hemispheres is really more like two sides of the universe meeting at an equator, acting with compression and expansion in rotation, and which extended out shows the doughnut shape.

And he says those patterns are the same at all scales. Whereas modern science tells us that small and large scales are very different. When Tesla grasped what Walter Russell had written he said that all of science would have to be re-written. I think both of them are right.

There are lots of pdf around on the internet for free of Walter Russell's books. I just finished reading Atomic Suicide for the third time. That book really covers the physics in detail. And primary within all of his works is how the thoughts of God operate to create reality. And give ideas how we can better align with God. So his books are very spiritual as well as very thoughtful.

Wishing you good luck on your journey to find the truth.

[weareunity]

Hello winter light.

Your considerate and welcome post above has prompted me to leave pondering on the subject for a while and do some further enquiring, albeit necessarily at a pretty basic level able to be understood with my current and limited knowledge.

First step has been to find information re the smoke ring phenomenon mentioned.

I find it has a name--- toroidal vortex.--- a shape/process/ flow phenomenon produced in certain conditions and in such conditions creating quite particular effects.

Whilst I imagine the occurrence of this phenomenon to be only possible in a fluid environment rather within a "solid" environment, this does not seem to rule out the possibility of such a phenomenon being present in shapes --a universe for example--"containing" galaxies planets etc. where such bodies are like particles suspended in the fluid of "space".

Within this toroidal vortex there would be considerable repeating changes of relative positions as the vortex rotates around its toroidal axis simply because the outer circumference of the vortex is necessarily less than the inner circumference.??--but if so, with what consequences, and how would/might such consequences be evident?

Coming to the "spiritual" consideration/question.

It is just a "feeling", but not cast aside simply because it is "just" a feeling-- concerning logic.

"Logic" seems to be a term used to describe a process of deducing from supposedly known characteristics, properties of all aspects with input into a particular circumstance, and thus providing a capability of prediction of result regarding the outcome of all such input. ???

But. Is this just a capability or is it in some sense itself a formative power quite different from our "usual" understanding of "power"???

And what of "loving" ?? Perhaps --logically--the necessary motive power for the full application of the power of logic (necessary, but not enforced, for such does not seem logical.)

I seem to have slipped back to pondering.

Cheers. X.