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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #81  
Old 18-11-2020, 09:15 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godspark
The problem is many people awaken but don't become enlightened (myself included), you can know all this intellectually and even from a personal experience, but realization is different to just knowing the truth, it's like an "ah hah" moment where instead of believing it to be the truth you actually incorporate it and become the truth, start walking in this truth.
Have to disagree. Realize what? That is not being described in pretense it isn't known. Everyone knows the realization they have, know their truth. It can be no other way. A person most definitely can have knowledge but not act in that knowledge with the realization of knowing why, or the truth. Don't people know why they don't become enlightened, usually because they don't want to once it is realized why. There is (always) a realization and experience that exists and it is about knowing it exists. To pretend it isn't known means it doesn't have to end.
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  #82  
Old 19-11-2020, 01:09 AM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godspark
I agree with you Mike, in fact I had a similar conversation with my friend one day talking about being pure awareness (that 'I am' presence) and becoming enlightened. How we label everything "this is a tree, that's a cat" and use words to communicate which is just agreed meaning to describe things and utterly pointless when everything 'just is' there is nothing left to do, be or say other than to simply exist 'as is' within the present moment. When you recognize and realize you are the awareness within everything that is when true peace and enlightenment happens. The problem is many people awaken but don't become enlightened (myself included), you can know all this intellectually and even from a personal experience, but realization is different to just knowing the truth, it's like an "ah hah" moment where instead of believing it to be the truth you actually incorporate it and become the truth, start walking in this truth. Similar to when you realize you are dreaming whilst still in a dream, a dream character could even tell you that you are dreaming, you might even believe them, but unless you have that 'ah hah' moment where you realize it yourself, then you won't become lucid. What I'm trying to say is people often throw around the word realization when it's more than just becoming aware of something, its a process or act in and of itself. Like having a sudden realization of leaving your keys in the car when you were thinking about something entirely different. Enlightenment can also take many reincarnations until it actually happens, and isn't something you can just make happen yourself, it's more like a predestined event or at least that's what they say.

Personally, I would rather understand it all from an intellectual perspective and hold onto my ego, so I can use it for self-empowerment and retain my sense of individuality and personality, and be able to have fun exploring and experiencing things. Ignorance is bliss, and besides I would rather become godlike and control things (not in a bad way) similar to a demigod.

I wanted to mention as well that in the bible it says "God made man in his own image" and this is true both literally and metaphorically. You could even reword it as "God made man in his own imagination" because we are God inside of God, everything is God. It's impossible for something to not be God when you really think about it, for God is creator of all things.


Adya says something along these lines...

Egoís innate nature is sticky, our true nature isnít sticky,itís not pushing and pulling with itself..

In his view, I take it that most of that stickiness is Ďattachmentí rather than being in an Ďopennessí to all things within..
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Authentic autonomy is the unity of relative and absolute; only when you go beyond all of the opposites can Spiritís unique expression be born in you and as you~Adyashanti
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  #83  
Old 19-11-2020, 10:01 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godspark
Personally, I would rather understand it all from an intellectual perspective and hold onto my ego, so I can use it for self-empowerment and retain my sense of individuality and personality, and be able to have fun exploring and experiencing things. Ignorance is bliss, and besides I would rather become godlike and control things (not in a bad way) similar to a demigod.
I find it interesting that the ones who don't like the ego very much are the ones who don't have so much personality or individuality, people who don't like themselves very much.
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  #84  
Old 19-11-2020, 10:15 AM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
I find it interesting that the ones who don't like the ego very much are the ones
who don't have so much personality or individuality, people who don't like themselves very much.
Hahahha, I might just be an exception to that!
I dislike the unwanted aspects of the ego - and I'm nothing if full of personality and uniqueness - the biggest word used for me.
I like myself a lot! LOL---laughing - ouch, I can feel my stomach muscles I worked out too much!

Note to self: stop belly laughing after big workouts.
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"Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by riding daily in a balloon of divine perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones...Meditate unceasingly,
that you quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence" ~~Lahiri Mahasaya, the guru of Yogananda's guru.

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  #85  
Old 19-11-2020, 10:28 AM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
I find it interesting that the ones who don't like the ego very much are the ones who don't have so much personality or individuality, people who don't like themselves very much.

Ego good/bad is a false dichotomy. The proper framing is can a situation be improved? Is the status quo good enough?

Even if one takes spirituality out of the equation practicing mindfulness for secular purposes has as its goal taming of the ego-self. Less self-relatedness and taking things personally.

I'm of the "situation can be improved" camp and have never been accused of lacking personality. LOL!
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  #86  
Old 19-11-2020, 10:33 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBe
Adya says something along these lines...

Egoís innate nature is sticky, our true nature isnít sticky,itís not pushing and pulling with itself..

In his view, I take it that most of that stickiness is Ďattachmentí rather than being in an Ďopennessí to all things within..

***



***
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  #87  
Old 19-11-2020, 10:56 AM
hallow hallow is offline
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So to "find self" and get rid of "ego" one could forget everything they learned in life throw away your books/media and restart from nothing with an open mind to spiritually?
This really doesn't go with the most recent post, I wrote this in a different thread but the same question works here too.
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  #88  
Old 19-11-2020, 11:14 AM
Godspark Godspark is offline
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Lemex, I was talking about the process of realization in regards to achieving enlightenment. I thought I explained it well enough in my post but I guess not, my friend knows more about the topic than I do because I'm more interested in understanding what reality is and how it works, than what enlightenment is and how that works. He says its the same thing - wanting to understand reality is same as trying to become enlightened. I agree with him to a certain extent but I want to know the ins and outs, all the mechanics and every small detail that goes along with whole picture. He also says that you can have an enlightenment experience but that isn't enlightenment because enlightenment is a permanent change not a fleeting experience. I realized the truth a long time ago but I call this awakening not enlightenment, awakening is about opening up oneself and discovering the truth, but enlightenment would be more about accepting that truth and becoming one with it and reaching an ultimate blissful state of being. It's not that I shy away from it or don't want it, just that I haven't reached the stage where I believe it whole heartedly and self actualize. My friend describes being enlightened as a completely effortless state of being, where you are aware of awareness, aware of being aware of being aware, ad infinum.

My friend believes there are enlightened masters alive today, and has even showed me a few that make youtube video's about enlightenment. Personally, I think these people are just more aware or further along the road and that there isn't a single enlightened person on the planet alive today, because if there was you would know it, everyone would know it. It would be the same as being alive in the days of Ra, Buddha, or Jesus. People like Eckhart Tolle, Sadhguru or Mooji might say they are enlightened and believe it themselves to be true, when really they just know a lot of things and use a mindfulness practice very often. Do you think in a thousand years they will be remembered in history the same way we know about Ra, Buddha or Jesus? I doubt it.

I'm finding many people see ego as a bad word, or bad thing that only has negative connotations attached. I don't see it that way, there is a lot of good that comes from the ego, and like Greenslade said it's your source of personality and individuality. It's probably more a case of people letting their ego grow wild and untamed, people often aren't aware of the need to school your own thoughts, or teach your own mind how it should behave. The mind is a tool and should be used as such, if the tool is broken you fix it, if you don't need the tool then you put it away for later use. You need that tool to function and survive.

Mike is also right, in that people use the knowledge to further their own ends (often for nefarious reasons) and that mainstream spirituality has the tendency to lead people astray. It does feel outdated in need of change, people get the wrong idea of ego and think ego-death is a requirement, I guess if you want to be in constant unity with everything and no thought for yourself then yeah it is. I would rather become self empowered as an individual, than part of the collective borg. For most people the whole reason for going on this journey is to learn, grow, understand and develop oneself, not to dissolve oneself.
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  #89  
Old 19-11-2020, 11:38 AM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallow
So to "find self" and get rid of "ego" one could forget everything they learned in life
throw away your books/media and restart from nothing with an open mind to spiritually? ....
Well, if you learned the World's Thought System --you could interpret this as competitive, 'me first',
(ha, you see this best in Boston traffic!~!), um yes.
Or
You have the higher, spiritual, godly Thought System, which is opposite of the Worldly Thought System like crazy!

It's a flip in actions and words ...like George Kastanza, (TV show in the USA, "Seinfeld") ---it can be tested.
Do the opposite of what the World might tell you to do.

The World says, logically -"The homeless guy is just going to buy alcohol. So I'm not going to help him do that!"
What would your higher self say, your innocent heart, the one like a child's?
"Here's a 20, God bless you." (Now how does that feel?)
(It often goes against logic...I'm glad it does!)
__________________
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"Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by riding daily in a balloon of divine perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones...Meditate unceasingly,
that you quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence" ~~Lahiri Mahasaya, the guru of Yogananda's guru.

*
I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod.


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  #90  
Old 19-11-2020, 11:43 AM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godspark
Lemex, I was talking about the process of realization in regards to achieving enlightenment. I thought I explained it well enough in my post but I guess not, my friend knows more about the topic than I do because I'm more interested in understanding what reality is and how it works, than what enlightenment is and how that works. He says its the same thing - wanting to understand reality is same as trying to become enlightened. I agree with him to a certain extent but I want to know the ins and outs, all the mechanics and every small detail that goes along with whole picture. He also says that you can have an enlightenment experience but that isn't enlightenment because enlightenment is a permanent change not a fleeting experience. I realized the truth a long time ago but I call this awakening not enlightenment, awakening is about opening up oneself and discovering the truth, but enlightenment would be more about accepting that truth and becoming one with it and reaching an ultimate blissful state of being. It's not that I shy away from it or don't want it, just that I haven't reached the stage where I believe it whole heartedly and self actualize. My friend describes being enlightened as a completely effortless state of being, where you are aware of awareness, aware of being aware of being aware, ad infinum.

My friend believes there are enlightened masters alive today, and has even showed me a few that make youtube video's about enlightenment. Personally, I think these people are just more aware or further along the road and that there isn't a single enlightened person on the planet alive today, because if there was you would know it, everyone would know it. It would be the same as being alive in the days of Ra, Buddha, or Jesus. People like Eckhart Tolle, Sadhguru or Mooji might say they are enlightened and believe it themselves to be true, when really they just know a lot of things and use a mindfulness practice very often. Do you think in a thousand years they will be remembered in history the same way we know about Ra, Buddha or Jesus? I doubt it.

I'm finding many people see ego as a bad word, or bad thing that only has negative connotations attached. I don't see it that way, there is a lot of good that comes from the ego, and like Greenslade said it's your source of personality and individuality. It's probably more a case of people letting their ego grow wild and untamed, people often aren't aware of the need to school your own thoughts, or teach your own mind how it should behave. The mind is a tool and should be used as such, if the tool is broken you fix it, if you don't need the tool then you put it away for later use. You need that tool to function and survive.

Mike is also right, in that people use the knowledge to further their own ends (often for nefarious reasons) and that mainstream spirituality has the tendency to lead people astray. It does feel outdated in need of change, people get the wrong idea of ego and think ego-death is a requirement, I guess if you want to be in constant unity with everything and no thought for yourself then yeah it is. I would rather become self empowered as an individual, than part of the collective borg. For most people the whole reason for going on this journey is to learn, grow, understand and develop oneself, not to dissolve oneself.

It's quite impossible to understand how it works. To know the ins and outs, all the mechanics and every small detail that goes along with the whole picture. That would require omniscience and is quite beyond the capacity of mind.

As far as an awakening experience here's how I can describe it, but only through analogy for the reason I stated above. It's exactly like a lucid dream only while fully awake. In a lucid dream one realizes (experiences) one is not the dream body but the dreamer and the entire dream. It's literally experienced because one attains waking consciousness within the dream reality. Now picture how that would be while awake, realizing (experiencing) one is not mind-body but for lack of a better word Consciousness and everything, including mind-body, is just Its contents. I suppose this is why it's called Self Realization. It's beyond intellectual knowing. Far, far beyond. It's experiential "knowing". Enlightenment is when/if that state of being becomes all-pervasive and irreversible.

There is no collective Borg. It's One without a second. One way I can relate it is everything is within One and One is within everything. Imagine looking into another's eyes and "knowing" without a shadow of doutb you were looking right back, to the point of expecting a knowing wink back. In no way, shape or form is it a state of disempowerment. It's quite the opposite, except perhaps to the ego-self. It's a shift in identification from ego-self to Consciousness.
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"Research your own experience; absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is essentially your own." ~ Bruce Lee

"Of a certainty the man who can see all creatures in himself, himself in all creatures, knows no sorrow." ~ Upanishads

https://tinyurl.com/y2mxr4s2 My YouTube Channel

JASG
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