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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #21  
Old 05-11-2020, 12:26 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running
im obstructed by nothing. its just a matter of opening up more and deepening the phenomena.
I was not talking about you being obstructed.
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Heaven, Earth, and I were produced together; and all things and I are one." -Chang Tzu

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  #22  
Old 06-11-2020, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
I was not talking about you being obstructed.

you replied to me. the process goes. moments. to minutes. to periods of time. to bliss and silence irrespective. which means whatever or however one may be thinking or doing.
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  #23  
Old 08-11-2020, 08:06 AM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
We can't know self because we are not conscious of what we are not conscious of. The unconscious is called the unconscious for a reason. The ego-mind (since you used that term) can't understand what is far beyond its understanding.

As far as the unconscious is concerned it has its own sense of time, but if you talk to people who have suffered severe trauma as a child you'll find that sometimes their fragmented personality aspects are stuck/frozen in the past, usually at around the time they suffered the trauma. Mine was and I've talk to others who have said the same. Those perceptions of the past traumas affect the future, they comprise of what's known as the Shadow Self.

What do you consider as not programming? I've going through what you might understand as de-programming, which involved taking my cognitive framework apart piece by piece and examining it. Your cognitive framework is the main factor in the creation of your reality and is 'responsible' for you believing what is programming/conditioning or not.

As for the rest of it, I wanted some kind of verification other than my own subjective reality, as as far as what I said it doesn't come from a better source than one of the founding fathers of psychology. He's done the empirical research and the best I have to go on is my own limited perceptions. And yes, what he says is observable by not just me but many great minds both past and present.
It is key and a big start for one to know and see for him/her self that one thinks too much, by being conscious/aware of one thinking too much.

Controlling one thoughts and thinking is futile and is not necessary. Turning the habit of thinking too much into a habit of inner silence and not thinking too much is all one needs.

Thinking is not the problem by itself. The problem is conditioning/programming, which causes people to think too much and to have too many beliefs that are not true.
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"Not-being was this in the beginning; From it arose. Self-fashioned indeed out of itself." -Upanishads

Heaven, Earth, and I were produced together; and all things and I are one." -Chang Tzu

"It is from the nameless that Heaven and Earth sprang." -Tao Te Ching
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  #24  
Old 08-11-2020, 08:26 AM
ant
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Repetion~same ol' song,same ol' tune.

Some people have realizations at some stage,that prophesizing the same old false bag of tricks from non experiencing,runs it cource.

They learn at some point,it is not about self,the self indulgent,i am higher,i am not ego etc etc.

They at some point drop 'it'.

All process,we've all been here before.
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  #25  
Old 08-11-2020, 11:33 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
Perhaps you and I have a different meaning for the self. Self, to me, is the feeling of I/I AM or of being alive, which we are conscious of, as opposed to just thinking I am/me, myself and I inside our heads. We thinking I am/me, myself and I inside our heads is the ego internally describing the self (the feeling of the person being alive/presence in the NOW/present moment).
Yes we do have different words. If you're really going to understand the self and ego then you need to be Googling Jung. If not, then you need to ask yourself the reasons. Frankly I don't see much point in trying to understand each other if there's no common dictionary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
Yes, the unconscious does have it's owns sense of time, from the ego's point of view. That sense of time in the unconscious is repressed or long forgotten memory, emotions, feelings, experiences, beliefs and etc that we store in the unconscious of the past.
The sense of time has nothing to do with repressed memories, etc. Wat people go forweards with is mostly the memories of perceptions mrather thasn the experience or the events of thew past. Since you mentioned your childhood in fostercare, is't that which shapes your perceptions rather than what actually happened? Because while things were happening at the time, you were forming your own perceptions.


People repress their perceptions/feelings because they either can't or won't deal with them. It maybe to too traumatic to maske sense of or their may be little sense of it, while people in this forum would rather believe it's bad karma from a past Life. The illusion of time givesd people a sense of provress, that "time heals all wounds" etc.


What you are calling "unconscious memory" is the Shadow Self, it's neither unconscious or memory it's repressed perceptions. The memories are still available but in a 'deeper level' of memory than most day-to-day ones. The memories of what actually happened are still there but what really ednures are the perceptions. What i9s triggered is the emotional reaction to those perceptions, and this is what people don't understand. This is where the Self comes in, because much of this happens at an unconscious level.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
Time-the past and the future are nothing but illusions, concepts and habits of the ego. Time is just the earth's movement around the sun. If we human lived on a different planet that rotated around a different sun, time would be different for us then. I mentioned this about time many times on this forum, but people seem to want to ignore and not accept that fact about time. Probably because they want to hold onto their unconscious repressed or long forgotten/unconscious memories, emotions, feelings, experiences, beliefs. People want to give more credit to the illusion of time than it is worth.
If we iveds on a different planet with a different rotation and a different order, we'd still be talking about time the same as we're doing here. What people are not talking about is time itself but a perception of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
When someone or something triggers our unconscious repressed or long forgotten unconscious memory, emotions, feelings, experiences, beliefs in the NOW/present moment, we automatically unconsciously act upon or react upon them, without thinking about them. Just because we are not conscious of them NOW, does not mean we can not (never) be conscious of them NOW!
I don't react and I don't get triggered because I've dealt with my past. It's called the Shadow Self, because it's somehere between unconscious and conscious and this is where most people won't go, because it's dark and scary and they don't like admitting that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
I have went through childhood trauma, abuse, neglect and I had to fend for myself while I was growing up in foster care.
I've dealt with my dark and dismal past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
I consider not programming to be beliefs, feelings, thoughts, experiences and etc one gets/has from being conscious of/in the NOW/present moment. And is the same as reprogramming the unconscious. The NOW/present moment negates the illusion of time (past and future), Take away the illusions of past and the future and you have the NOW/present moment.
What you're calling 'programming' is cognitive behaviour, and it part it is about 'programming' the unconscious mind because the unconscious 'stores' it's own version of our perceptual reality - the one you really experience rather than the one you're telling yourself you expereince. When there's conflict beteen those two conflict is refelcted in their words and deed.


We still have a sense of past and future, so regardless of how you define time you still have a perception of past and future. What happened to you - or anyone else for that matter - is real enough to you/that person.We carry the past with us.
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  #26  
Old 08-11-2020, 11:34 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopylucid
Does nature do natural, do humans do humanity? Could be a good poem in there somewhere!
Only humans do Spirituality, everything else simply exists so who is Spiritual after all?
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  #27  
Old 08-11-2020, 11:36 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
It is key and a big start for one to know and see for him/her self that one thinks too much, by being conscious/aware of one thinking too much.

Controlling one thoughts and thinking is futile and is not necessary. Turning the habit of thinking too much into a habit of inner silence and not thinking too much is all one needs.

Thinking is not the problem by itself. The problem is conditioning/programming, which causes people to think too much and to have too many beliefs that are not true.
Thge problem is whatr's known in psychology as gognitive behaviour, because that is the framework that underpins one's own reality. That is the creator of reality for that peron, NOT the conscious, mind or anything else.
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  #28  
Old 10-11-2020, 03:45 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ant
Repetion~same ol' song,same ol' tune.

Some people have realizations at some stage,that prophesizing the same old false bag of tricks from non experiencing,runs it cource.

They learn at some point,it is not about self,the self indulgent,i am higher,i am not ego etc etc.

They at some point drop 'it'.

All process,we've all been here before.
Now that is repeating someone else's same old song-same old tune.

If you believe what you said to be true, you would not be here on a forum as ant/your self
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"Not-being was this in the beginning; From it arose. Self-fashioned indeed out of itself." -Upanishads

Heaven, Earth, and I were produced together; and all things and I are one." -Chang Tzu

"It is from the nameless that Heaven and Earth sprang." -Tao Te Ching
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  #29  
Old 10-11-2020, 03:58 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Thge problem is whatr's known in psychology as gognitive behaviour, because that is the framework that underpins one's own reality. That is the creator of reality for that peron, NOT the conscious, mind or anything else.
I agree but our past experiences is what formed all of our memories, conditioning/programming, thus our (subjective) realities.

Edit our experiences are external -physical, internal-mental/emotional or a combination of the two.
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"Not-being was this in the beginning; From it arose. Self-fashioned indeed out of itself." -Upanishads

Heaven, Earth, and I were produced together; and all things and I are one." -Chang Tzu

"It is from the nameless that Heaven and Earth sprang." -Tao Te Ching
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  #30  
Old 11-11-2020, 12:20 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
It is key and a big start for one to know and see for him/her self that one thinks too much, by being conscious/aware of one thinking too much.

Controlling one thoughts and thinking is futile and is not necessary. Turning the habit of thinking too much into a habit of inner silence and not thinking too much is all one needs.

Thinking is not the problem by itself. The problem is conditioning/programming, which causes people to think too much and to have too many beliefs that are not true.
Having too many beliefs that are not true is destructive cognitive behviour and/or a personality disorder, which is what most would call 'programming'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
I agree but our past experiences is what formed all of our memories, conditioning/programming, thus our (subjective) realities.

Edit our experiences are external -physical, internal-mental/emotional or a combination of the two.
Cognitive behaviour forms our memories or more correctly the perceptions that form the memories, it is the mainly cognitive behaviour that 'decides' on what kind of experience we have but that is also in relation to other unconscious aspects of ourselve and our conscious self image/esteem - amongst other things. If you practice Right Thinking and have a healthy self esteem, you'll have a very different experience to someone who has low self esteem and destructive cognitive behaviour. There are a few conscious and unconscious 'subsystems' at play that create our subjective realities, and anything internalised has been processed by those subsystems first. Emotional trauma and the mental effects, for instance, are not reactions to actual events but to our perceptions of the events, and our inability to deal with them.
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