Christ, Tao, Logos, Buddha-nature etc etc

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

T.S.Eliot, who knew his Christian mystics as well as being well read on the various eastern faiths, felt no compunction in alluding to the Bhagavad Gita in one section of his poems and Dante's Paradiso in the next. He was not interested in judging various doctrines/beliefs or even in contrasting them with each other, nor in reconciling them. Instead, he claims that prior to the differentiation of various religious paths, there is a universal substratum called Word (logos) of which religions are concretions. This logos is an object both of belief and disbelief. It is an object of belief in that, without prior belief in the logos, any subsequent religious belief is incoherent. It is an object of disbelief in that belief in it is empty, the positive content of actual belief is fully invested in religious doctrine.

The above is basically my rewording of what is to me an interesting viewpoint. I usually quote the original but being quite long, wish to avoid being smacked by Miss Hepburn (even though that might well be a delightful experience)

But seriously, the observation of Eliot seems to have great potential in healing obvious rifts between the various religions, putting to bed once and for all the "Only Ways" so beloved by some.

"They do Him wrong who love and worship God in just one way - they end with the way rather than God." ( Meister Eckhart )

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Regarding what was said before concerning a "universal substratum" variously called logos, Word...........Tao, whatever. This can also be approached by the Perennial Philosophy of such thinkers as the French writer René Guénon, the Anglo-Ceylonese Ananda Coomaraswamy, and Frithjof Schuon, a Swiss-German.

"The term philosophia perennis…signifies the totality of primordial and universal truths — and therefore of the metaphysical axioms — whose formulation does not belong to any particular system..." – Frithjof Schuon

T.S.Eliot speaks of the need for some sort of belief in such prior to anything at all making sense. Possibly without such belief we are left with "a tale told by an idiot signifying nothing".

Myself, I have trust in such Reality. The form it takes in my own mind is of it being a source of awareness and healing , that spatiality and temporality have inevitable liberative qualities.

As I sought to say elsewhere, seeking "union" with such a Reality does not involve dissolution of "self", or "bliss", but rather becoming an agent of healing ourselves. It is important to say that this does not imply relationships between the healed and those still in need, between the healer and the wounded. It's a relationship between equals. "Only when we know our own darkness well can we be present with the darkness of others. Compassion becomes real when we recognise our shared humanity." (Pema Chodron)

Personally I find such questions as those involving "false self" and "real self" and how we can "realise non-duality within duality" etc etc will actually work themselves out quite nicely if we simply try to be compassionate towards others, rather than judgemental.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

Personally I find such questions as those involving "false self" and "real self" and how we can "realise non-duality within duality" etc etc will actually work themselves out quite nicely if we simply try to be compassionate towards others, rather than judgemental.

Very nice. Interesting conclusion. Try, for me, is like a sour thumb sticking out...since there is no trying; there is doing.
Anyone that says to me, 'Well, I try to drink more water'. I always chuckle and say, "Oh, then you aren't."

This is my firm believe, different than yours regarding compassion bringing about questions working themselves out nicely...
this below is how I believe things work themselves out...written in 1951 or so by C.S. Lewis.
(By direct experience or revelation -then that knowledge brings forth many fruits naturally,
including compassion, I also call kindness.)
Just my take on what you've brought up.

If you want joy, power, peace, eternal life, you must get close to, or even into, the thing that has them.
They are not a sort of prize which God could, if He chose, just hand out to anyone.
They are a great fountain of energy and beauty spurting up at the very centre of reality.
If you are close to it, the spray will wet you: if you are not, you will remain dry.

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Very nice. Interesting conclusion. Try, for me, is like a sour thumb sticking out...since there is no trying; there is doing.

Yes. Thanks. I see I have somehow argued against what I have long seen, that genuine morality will always be a by-product of "wisdom"* When self-consciously pursued it will almost inevitably issue itself in self-righteousness and therefore judgement of others.

I think I was simply becoming exasperated by the constant toing and froing on some threads and felt like shouting....

(I think I need to steer clear of that "non-duality" "false self" set of threads)

* Wisdom, maybe defined as "the mind/heart, thirsting for emancipation, seeing direct into the heart of reality." But I just know someone will object to that. .....

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

(I think I need to steer clear of that "non-duality" "false self" set of threads)

I'm with you!

* Wisdom, may be defined as "the mind/heart, thirsting for emancipation, seeing directly into the heart of reality."
But I just know someone will object to that. .....

Not me..only to the grammar, which I corrected in the quote.

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Not me..only to the grammar, which I corrected in the quote.

I'll let that one go.


(Actually, the wisdom definition is by Edward Conze, from his book "Buddhism: Its Essence and Development." )

It is nice following your exchanges.

Antoine

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by Legrand

It is nice following your exchanges.
Antoine

Some people just send for the men in white coats.......

[Miss Hepburn]

Re: The men in the white coats..
We have to build up Cobbler's self esteem, guys.
You are a great addition to this Forum!!

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 2 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

Personally I find such questions as those involving "false self" and "real self" and how we can "realise non-duality within duality" etc etc will actually work themselves out quite nicely if we simply try to be compassionate towards others, rather than judgemental.

As with Miss Hepburn, your last sentence caught my attention most.

While there is admittedly at least some degree of compassion in each of us, it has been my experience that it is difficult to radiate compassion for all until one has at least some awareness of the inter-connectedness of all. This would seem to apply equally to the Christian teaching to "Love your neighbor as yourself".

I do agree , however, that realizations "will actually work themselves out quite nicely" in accordance with the well known saying:

When the student is ready, the teacher appears.
When the student is really ready, the teacher disappears.

NOTE that the "teacher" need not necessarily be another person. It can be virtually anything that serves as a enlightening catalyst.