Vent

[BigJohn]

The age old debate as to who is more spiritual............
probably can be resolved if people would only live on air and only air.

[Rah nam]

the point was, we let go of many thing as we evolve, including certain foods.
if we let go of something is not a measure of where we are.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

the point was, we let go of many thing as we evolve, including certain foods.
if we let go of something is not a measure of where we are.

There is no point to it in relation to veganism. Humans evolved as omnivores and every human civilization or hunter-gatherer group ate/eats animal food. Meat, fish, dairy, eggs. You can't get enough plant protein in the wilds. Vegans also depend on stuff made in the factory, like vitamin pills and fortified foods. Is all that dependency a sign of being more evolved? I don't think so. It's even more maddening if we know that farming practices have made the world less biodiverse.

We've become more out of tune with nature and foolishly we think it's made us more spiritual.

[Rah nam]

Your reply has very little to do with what I have stated.
As well your replies are as old and outdated as the hunter and so on you mentioned.
But never mind, there is a path for all of us in this wonderful game we are playing, so play well.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

Your reply has very little to do with what I have stated.
As well your replies are as old and outdated as the hunter and so on you mentioned.
But never mind, there is a path for all of us in this wonderful game we are playing, so play well.

So how is it more ''evolved''? Lets hear it then.
So far all you are saying is I'm vegan therefore I'm more evolved.

[Rah nam]

Perhaps go back and read again and again what I said, and perhaps at some point you will understand what I said, perhaps.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

Perhaps go back and read again and again what I said, and perhaps at some point you will understand what I said, perhaps.

Yeah... you believe vegans are higher dimensional beings, higher vibration, and that giving up animal food a sign of spiritual development.

People from every culture have depended / still depend on animal food: meat, or dairy, or eggs... or a combination. This is true for the monks, the priests, the guru's, the yogi's. Those that taught or did something spiritual still ate either meat/fish/eggs/dairy or drank cow or goat's milk.

Why are people, that depend on modern factories making supplements and fortified foods, suddenly more spiritual than everyone else? Why is dependency on plant protein that can't be found locally and needs to be shipped from another continent suddenly more spiritual? Our bodily needs haven't changed in all that time. Calling it ''the past'' doesn't change the nature. So how can a vegan be a higher dimensional being, more vibrational and spiritual?

[Guillaume]

The subject is complex, because none of the animals we now consume are genuine animals, all of them are raised to be eaten. Fed on what, with which supplements or antibiotics ... ?
If we take a spreadsheet with the average content in this and that vitamins, we can do maths with food but, unfortunately, that's absolutely not how it works in reality.
Nothing adds up, there are tons of interactions between foods, not all vitamins or sources are equal, we have all a different metabolism ...
And we have many beliefs about what we need.

[Altair]

It's just a very complex topic, Guillaume. But I too believe the treatment of farm animals is abysmal. It is a system of mass production and another example of the efficiency and scale of modernity. That however does not make animal food bad in and of itself. Modernity is full of ironies: it claims to fix disease and hunger but it creates bigger populations and more pressure on resources. Fossil fuels charge our tech and civilization, but pollute our air. Veganism claims to be there for the animals, but depends on modern farming and technology. Modernity itself is the disease. It creates more materialism and wealth but at what cost? Another irony is I'm posting all of it using a computer.

[Pagandell]

My spiritual( for won't of a better word ) instinct / gut reaction tells me Rah nam is correct in what he says.