The Creation of Satan

[wmsm]

Originally Posted by Types With Fingers

That's a very interesting argument, and it makes sense. However, it's important to me to prove that NDEs and the studies of afterlife research are real and not works of the devil.
All the afterlife research I've come across suggests there is no devil (though there may be negative/demonic entities), but suggestions are not good enough for me. So it seems to me that the best way to squash my fears is to somehow prove that Satan does not exist, or to prove that our stay in hell is temporary (but that's for another thread). In my thinking, this would mean combining a look at the Bible with basic logic (and I mean that seriously).

Human beings the conscious presence who consider through their own acts and actions to be creators and inventors.

Human beings studying information and proposals activate a science whilst existing in information of the atmosphere that they believe by personal perusal to keep them safe.

Since when does a human being consider doing an act of conversion which involves huge powers of destruction....that could destroy their own life.....or doesn't a scientist take the mind action to propose that life could be destroyed by a huge powerful reaction?

I ask this myself for I wonder why any scientist using huge power as activations considered themselves safe....What is in your own thought processes that causes you to consider your own self to be safe as human life when you propose to alter the natural conditon in which your natural life exists?

Therefore obviously an ancient scientist proposed the conditions of Creator as both positive and negative and considered that his own person was safe in the condition of activating a realization about spiritual powers.

Cause and effect is an after consideration of any scientific application, which is the reason why modern day scientists reviewed the INTRODUCED condition of life changes....illness....diseases etc. as scientific data.

How is the ancient scientific review any different from modern day scientific review as an after effect called CAUSE AND EFFECT, which the ancients proposed was Karmic consequence?

If you know as a human being that spiritual life is holy via the conditions of holiness NO CHANGES TO THE SPIRIT or else the SPIRIT WILL GET ATTACKED.....to then get attacked by evil....a condition that EXISTS TODAY in MODERN APPLIED SCIENCE....then what is to query?

If you do not believe in evil, then what do you propose science is itself?

The history of science is the OCCULT and the OCCULT is determined by ancient historical evidence to be the action of EVIL.

If ancient science knew that evil spirits were caused by the application and use of SION....then what do you think would happen in modern days also using SION....transmisSION....converSION....evil spirits and their manifestation and attack.

What has happened to our natural blood and cellular conditions as ancient scientific review?

It has become UNHOLY as the condition called the CHRIST MURDER....stigmata itself. The condition for murdering the HOLY SPIRIT of the HOLY HEAVENLY BODY is CHRIST....for CHRIST returns to the HEAVENLY BODY as the reviewed representation of HOLINESS.

This is why murdering the CHRIST SPIRIT on the cross of WOOD (cellular Nature of the organic life) kills the holy spirit.

What other evidence does the human life have to produce to determine that modern day scientists have committed the same evil act against their Nature, as the ancients did?

This was to create Satan through the act of causing the ANGELIC heavenly body to OUST ANGELIC PRESENCE in the act of FALLING.....FALL OUT.

Isn't the atmosphere demonstrating huge bodies of FALL OUT?

Of course it is.

Where do you think SATAN COMES FROM? Fall out of the atmosphere or Heavenly body...ancient evidence of science/occult.

[engellstein]

Oh, and I forgot: In 100% of the accounts of people seeing beings of any kind, the person will state that a loving light being was very beautiful and spoke beautifully, and they'll state that a demonic trickster being was very grotesque and spoke very negatively and eerily.

How many humans who commit terrible atrocities are hideous looking? How many charity volunteers are beautiful looking? It's all random! Being good don't mean you're gonna be on the cover of GQ! And you could be evil and land on the cover of GQ!

Everyone knows this! It's common sense! But magically, when it comes to spirits, if they are evil they look evil, if they are good they look good.

Good lord. Why can't people see this?

[wmsm]

The most evilest of human intent is to believe that a human being who has been mutated by the condition of science has an evil spirit?

All life as an organic presence was released from the loving light origin spiritual sound in origin mass that is on the other side of our own atmosphere.

Our atmosphere refilled in emptied out space...which placed the atmosphere back in communication with origin light itself. It affected the sound of origin light forcing the spirit to be made separate from its origin androgynous self.

This is why the Creator of organic life is androgynous and unknown, and yet all conditions that was caused to be made manifest has demonstrated a natural communion to communicate love. An animal when loved can become a loving spirit, demonstrating that all Nature came from exactly the same presence but simply belongs to a different light sound.

Therefore organic life, created after the atmospheric condition refilled emptied out space....demonstrating that we have NOTHING TO DO with an evil presence. Evil itself can manifest in our atmospheric condition, caused by occultism.

If you alter the atmospheric light and sound and form evil presences, these presences will affect the natural spiritual condition that our life belongs to....via activated sound and presence of the evil spirit itself.

The change of light and atmospheric sound caused our own cells to mutate....yet human beings mutated can be more loving, kind and caring than a perfect and beautiful formed human life. The condition of spirit is a chosen and taught condition, and our inheritance of spirit changed by SCIENTIFIC OCCULTISM.

I have seen and witnessed the SATANIC SPIRIT manifesting in burnt light and sound and have seen the many varied light sound images that it forms. Scientists unaware of the amount of destruction of the atmosphere that they are causing, have nearly given the evil manifested spirit our own life sound.

Therefore proven to my witness is Satan removing our own beauty.....causing us all to mutate and become grotesque whilst occultists Scientists believing in evil and that evil created our loving/kind selves are as far from a realistic review as they could ever be.

How dare any of you consider that SATAN created our natural human spiritual life....just because like me who you are studying whilst you do occultism itself realized how beautiful the spirit of SATAN manifests. If I have seen it and you are demonstrating that you know about it yourselves....can only cause the human beings reading this information to know that you yourselves are destroying our spiritual life and giving it to SATAN for no reason other than experimentation.

[ianalexanderr]

In the old testament, a special angel was used as a medium to communicate God's word and will to man. This angel was called "The angel of the Lord" and yet often identified itself as God and accepted worship. How can an angel be an angel and yet call itself God at the same time - and how/why would God sanction this?

God's people had a tradition of favoring the first born - and I think this was a mirror of a principle in heaven. In heaven, God has a favored individual Say the "First born" with special privileges to speak and act on behalf of God, and to carry his name.

There is a pattern in the Bible of the first born losing its "first born blessing" and that blessing being transferred to another:

From Abel, to Seth
From Ham to Shem
From Ishmael to Isaac
From Esau to Jacob
From Reuben to Judah
From Manasseh to Ephraim

I believe this pattern is hinting of a celestial event. God's original first born lost his blessing - Who was the highest, the most beautiful of all the angels? The Bible says this of satan:

You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.You were in Eden,the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you:

carnelian, chrysolite and emerald, topaz, onyx and jasper, lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. Your heart became proudon account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor.

Satan was the seal of perfection. The same stones that adorned him were the stones that adorned the High Priest in the old testament, just in a different order. He was set apart by the rest through his anointing as the "covering" or "guarding" cherub. He was on the holy mount of God.

So I believe satan was the original first born. He became arrogant and eventually challenged God. So God created a new first born: Adam. The Tree of life and tree of knowledge represented the two competing jurisdictions on earth. That of the legal authority of God, and that of the legal authority of the devil. The devil of course jealous of Adam as the new firstborn killed adam by making him sin. Adam by eating of the tree of knowledge and sinning, effectively chose the jurisdiction of the Devil - and as a result Adam and humanity have been under the jurisdiction and rule of the devil. The devil due to the sin became our head, or god with little g.
The reason why the world is soo messed up is because we live in a spiritual warzone. Our dictator, a renegade former first born of God gone bad. But everything is restored in time. Jesus has claimed God/first born status in heaven and soon earth will be reclaimed.

There is no need for suffering the way that humanity has suffered. It is a result of the rebellion of one desperate spiritual being clinging to power. And we happen to be right in the middle of it.

When God created angels/beings as companions he created them with freewill. Of course with freewill and individual volition, comes the danger that we would use it to harm others or oppose God. If we didn't have the freedom to rebel, obedience isn't worth much is it? We would be slaves as opposed to companions/sons of God.

[Types With Fingers]

You've raised some very good points. It's difficult for me to accept what you say, because deep down it's really my hope to somehow prove that Satan does not exist, because I believe in NDEs and other afterlife research, and wish to see religion accept them as real.

I don't know how to counter your points and further my own, so I must face the possibility that Satan may actually exist. This is something I don't really want to do, because if Satan exists, I don't know how to determine what is the truth when it comes to afterlife research. But how do you prove that an invisible entity that's known to lie, confuse, and deceive does not exist?

[Jatd]

Originally Posted by Types With Fingers

I don't quite know how to respond to any of these answers, there are so many viewpoints. I speak of the Bible in literal terms because the most conservative Christians do, and it's their beliefs about Satan and near-death experiences that I wish to counter. I don't seek to cause friction, I only focus on Satan because I believe the concept of a supernatural deceiver like Satan is preventing most people in religious circles from accepting near-death experiences as real visits to the great beyond. That compels me to focus on Satan.

See, what I want to do is prove that these experiences are NOT illusions created by Satan to confuse us about the nature of God, Jesus, and the afterlife. If that can be done, then the main obstacle between afterlife research and religion would be removed. As a result, religion itself would be removed as an obstacle between afterlife research and science. Imagine that: science, religion, and afterlife research accessible between each other with little in the way, almost in harmony.

So I'm a bit of a hopeless romantic, why not?

Anyway, perhaps I should rephrase my original thoughts. We assume God created the universe and everything that resides in it (based on Colossians 1:16), and knows everything that was, is, and will be (based on Ecclesiastes 3:1).

Does there exist a supernatural opposite of God, known to many as Satan? If it does, what is its purpose? What is its modus operandi? What is its weakness?

I would like to touch on this, because some of the other answers, I admit, Are way over my head.
So lets just talk raw for a moment, what you came here to ask ...

I am from a VERY religious family, by the book etc... My mothers side anyway... but my mothers mom passed away from lung cancer about 20 years ago. Her and her brothers and sisters (All very religious, one even a pastor) were in the room with her as she passed. She had been unconscious and asleep (coma like ) for several days, but as her breathing began to slow.. they said that tone point she was calling out for her mother... and then just before she passed away she opened her eyes wide, turned to the corner of the room, smiled and took her last very peaceful breath.
They believe this was God coming to get her as they witnessed it, BUT she was a Christian. So what is disturbing is, not many Bible Thumping Christians want to acknowledge this idea, because it stresses their truth. They can't fathom that the same thing happening to their Christian mother, could happen to the non Christian next to her.

They don't have the answers and so their automatic response is to throw blame, and who better than the devil?
I almost think that was the point of the Satan Creation, to throw responsibility on something other than one self.

Its all very confusing and mystical indeed. I honestly thing the truth is our human minds just can't possibly ever understand the truth.

[engellstein]

Originally Posted by ianalexanderr

In the old testament, a special angel was used as a medium to communicate God's word and will to man. This angel was called "The angel of the Lord" and yet often identified itself as God and accepted worship. How can an angel be an angel and yet call itself God at the same time - and how/why would God sanction this?

That's an interesting theory. The initial problem with it is the Angel of the Lord part. This is a common occurrence throughout the scriptures. See the link below for several references:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_of_the_Lord

Angels appears to Abraham, Moses, Gideon, and others. The accounts all say they were an "angel of God", and then the angel speaks as if he were God.

The one that stands out to me is when 3 angels visit Abraham, have a meal with him and a chat, and one identifies himself as Yahweh/God. And Abraham acts like it was normal. Then the other two angels go to Sodom to Lot's house and have a chat with him, all nonchalantly-like. They call themselves angels to Lot. While that's going on Abraham is having a "discussion" with Yahweh about how he shouldn't be cruel to a heart that's true.

Anyways, point being, there was nothing special or out of the ordinary for an angel or angel-type person to be talking to Adam and Eve in the garden. That seemed to be God's modus operandi.

[Jatd]

Originally Posted by Types With Fingers

That's a very interesting argument, and it makes sense. However, it's important to me to prove that NDEs and the studies of afterlife research are real and not works of the devil.
All the afterlife research I've come across suggests there is no devil (though there may be negative/demonic entities), but suggestions are not good enough for me. So it seems to me that the best way to squash my fears is to somehow prove that Satan does not exist, or to prove that our stay in hell is temporary (but that's for another thread). In my thinking, this would mean combining a look at the Bible with basic logic (and I mean that seriously).

Some Christians like to use the saying "The devil has mastered his greatest accomplishment by making you believe he doesn't exist"

So frustrating huh?

[Jatd]

Originally Posted by ianalexanderr

In the old testament, a special angel was used as a medium to communicate God's word and will to man. This angel was called "The angel of the Lord" and yet often identified itself as God and accepted worship. How can an angel be an angel and yet call itself God at the same time - and how/why would God sanction this?

God's people had a tradition of favoring the first born - and I think this was a mirror of a principle in heaven. In heaven, God has a favored individual Say the "First born" with special privileges to speak and act on behalf of God, and to carry his name.

There is a pattern in the Bible of the first born losing its "first born blessing" and that blessing being transferred to another:

From Abel, to Seth
From Ham to Shem
From Ishmael to Isaac
From Esau to Jacob
From Reuben to Judah
From Manasseh to Ephraim

I believe this pattern is hinting of a celestial event. God's original first born lost his blessing - Who was the highest, the most beautiful of all the angels? The Bible says this of satan:


Satan was the seal of perfection. The same stones that adorned him were the stones that adorned the High Priest in the old testament, just in a different order. He was set apart by the rest through his anointing as the "covering" or "guarding" cherub. He was on the holy mount of God.

So I believe satan was the original first born. He became arrogant and eventually challenged God. So God created a new first born: Adam. The Tree of life and tree of knowledge represented the two competing jurisdictions on earth. That of the legal authority of God, and that of the legal authority of the devil. The devil of course jealous of Adam as the new firstborn killed adam by making him sin. Adam by eating of the tree of knowledge and sinning, effectively chose the jurisdiction of the Devil - and as a result Adam and humanity have been under the jurisdiction and rule of the devil. The devil due to the sin became our head, or god with little g.
The reason why the world is soo messed up is because we live in a spiritual warzone. Our dictator, a renegade former first born of God gone bad. But everything is restored in time. Jesus has claimed God/first born status in heaven and soon earth will be reclaimed.

There is no need for suffering the way that humanity has suffered. It is a result of the rebellion of one desperate spiritual being clinging to power. And we happen to be right in the middle of it.

When God created angels/beings as companions he created them with freewill. Of course with freewill and individual volition, comes the danger that we would use it to harm others or oppose God. If we didn't have the freedom to rebel, obedience isn't worth much is it? We would be slaves as opposed to companions/sons of God.

Sounds to me Satan was just full of greed, and selfish desires. He sounds pretty ego centered. Hmmmm...

[wmsm]

Think about the true condition of your own person...you exist in a natural state.

How did we get to become a human being was the question posed for a scientific use....an applied and informed purpose to understand creation itself.

This is because the natural spirit who manifested from out of the light as our origin angelic light parents...equal in partnership and equal in self manifestation knew where they came from....from out of spirit.

To question if this condition is real to the creation of life...is to question spirit manifestation itself....and spirit manifestation has been proven to millions of human lives over a very long experience of living and witnessing of spirit.

Therefore for a scientist to question spirit is for a scientist who is the same thinking being who questioned spirit as a later evolved human life who was only born from an organic parent.

The history of our personal use and gain of science regards our own persons and our spiritual selves and spiritual realization.

Therefore our spiritual history as past life records....known by many psychics and reviewed and informed psychics determine that our ancient brother questioned creation for the purpose of using powers for science. His scientific review of spirit is therefore incorrect and always was incorrect and yet he constantly argues with real human experience of spirit.

Our brother therefore reviewed 2 conditions of spiritual purpose....a destructive spirit and also the higher condition of spirit and heavenly interactions that he himself belonged to.

Therefore by using his spiritual psyche and awareness and persuing lower informed information in light and sound as a historical evidence he purposely without thought to his own person activated and then caused the EVIL SPIRIT to be manifested as the state he named as OCCULT or EVIL.

He did not activate the EVIL SPIRIT on purpose, for only a dishonest human would believe in the evil spirit as a Creator. Our brother only observed information and believed via his own bodily presence and bodily activity that he was safe in the condition of his applied science.....and yet contrary to this insight he was eventually attacked by the EVIL SPIRIT.

This is how the wisdom of the EVIL SPIRIT was gained....for in origin review the evil spirit was not EVIL BY CONSIDERATION....for it only existed in a fixed state lower light and sound, that was protected and kept safe by the higher light and sound that the organic presence existed in.

The organic presence therefore learnt its own life lesson, that it is not a Creator and that looking back into historical creation evidence was the reason for activating the evil spirit that attacked him....therefore he was never wise and wisdom does not involve EVIL...only the opposite implies an evil minded inheritor who believes in the spirit that attacked his own mind and self.

Therefore modern day minds/occultists are still actually self possessed by the activation of the evil spiritual attack upon ancient humanity.

Ancient humanity were innocent of the knowledge of evil and only gained the knowledge of evil after they were attacked by it....demonstrating that this condition is not KNOWLEDGE but SELF DECEIT.