A Little About Reincarnation

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by bartholomew

One of the reasons we are always met by friends is to help us to adjust to the fact of our having just left the physical body behind. There might be disbelief or even anger. When any of us pass we are met and then we find our place in the lower heavens, the astral and lower mental, where we stay until we are sorted out. This is where the fabled judgement happens. Then we pass again, this time moving to the higher end of the mental plane, the home of souls. Here the landscape is different. We are still in the Earth's heavens but higher, less substantial they seem. We no longer look around us and see the familiar Ethereal Earth.

A last thought is this: In the spiritual worlds, even near to the Earth, we are sorted out according to vibrations. Thus those who pass in an emotional state cannot ascend further until they realize what is needed. This is why guides are so important. On the plane of souls emotions are very subdued. Souls are more mindful than emotional. The very highest sub plane of the astral is know to us as the seventh heaven of tradition. Here is the land of the golden light of those who are senior enough to leave the Earth but who choose to remain, in service.

It occurs to me that in order to consciously experience and enjoy the higher sub-planes of the astral and the higher mental, we need to have developed the corresponding aspects within our own astral and mental vehicles. Otherwise we lack the faculties to function on these planes. How can a person with a relatively undeveloped mental body function on the higher mental sub-planes?

Which suggests that for those who have yet to develop the higher astral and mental faculties, there comes a point where they slip into unconsciousness because they lack the ability to consciously function in these rarified states.

It would be rather like falling asleep and then waking up again during the process of preparing to take on a new incarnation. As we develop our vehicles, so we gradually increase our conscious experience of the after-death condition.

Just a thought.

Peace

[Miss Hepburn]

Picture the ocean.
Each fish is capable to swim between a certain psi., pounds per sq inch of pressure.
A fish that can swim a mile below the surface, (oh my, that is a lot of tonnage of weight@!),
can not swim 2 miles deep...and there are 7 mile deep trenches, btw!

We go to the proper level.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Picture the ocean.
Each fish is capable to swim between a certain psi., pounds per sq inch of pressure.
A fish that can swim a mile below the surface, (oh my, that is a lot of tonnage of weight@!),
can not swim 2 miles deep...and there are 7 mile deep trenches, btw!

We go to the proper level.

But surely we do not go to the "proper" level (i.e. that level which corresponds to our own vibrations) and then just remain there. At some points we discard the lower bodies of the old personality, ascending through the sub-planes up to the higher mental planes, before we begin a new descent. The question remains, to what extent can people consciously function on these higher sub-planes?

Rather like the fish that begins by swimming one mile below the surface but at some stage it will move down to two miles, and some might even go the full seven miles deep without imploding.

Peace

[inavalan]

I believe that all these astral planes are actually levels of your subconscious. The good / bad designation is a misinterpretation of their depth level.

Originally Posted by iamthat

It occurs to me that in order to consciously experience and enjoy the higher sub-planes of the astral and the higher mental, we need to have developed the corresponding aspects within our own astral and mental vehicles. Otherwise we lack the faculties to function on these planes. How can a person with a relatively undeveloped mental body function on the higher mental sub-planes?

Which suggests that for those who have yet to develop the higher astral and mental faculties, there comes a point where they slip into unconsciousness because they lack the ability to consciously function in these rarified states.

It would be rather like falling asleep and then waking up again during the process of preparing to take on a new incarnation. As we develop our vehicles, so we gradually increase our conscious experience of the after-death condition.

Just a thought.

Peace

Human souls are born to and are made of mental plane matter. In the beginning they are naive, unlearned. In early lifetimes on a planet the connections are tenuous at best. After death the transition to the mid levels of the astral are quick but the duration of the stay lengthy. After the rigors of Earth living a long rest there is afforded. At a certain time though the attraction of the soul causes the astral man to ascend where it is met. It is really the essence of the mental form which is raised up, not the astral body. This is the homecoming wherein that which has been leaned is imparted to the soul. Following this the return to a new life is almost immediate. In the beginning series of lifetimes the personality is, being a true human being, capable of both rational and abstract thought. The brain of the early man must be capable of using the abilities which are the birth right, even in rudimentary ways. This, also, is a sign of a true homo sapien.

Here is a more direct answer to your very insightful comments. The early incarnations show, in their auras the first of the petals of the crown, that of rudimentary intuition blossoming. This is representative of the innate connection to the position of the soul on it's own plane. The ability though is yet immature. Here is more. At this point the soul has not yet begun to approach any plane above the mental.

Newly born human souls live in groups of the fellows of the same age. This association affords them a higher degree of ability. They have not yet learned the art of individualism. They have only a group consciousness. And they are guided. Before incarnation they are taught the skills that they will need. These include the ability to function with the consciousness of a single human being. It is because of the great difficulties in the first of the incarnations that they require longer periods of rest on the astral after death.

In the beginning and for quite a long time afterwards the work of the guide soul is more involved. The guides are fellow souls who are advanced enough to serve in this capacity. It is they who actively guide the man or woman on Earth. It is they who draw even nearer after temporal death to assist the ethereal double in it's ascension to the astral plane. It is the guide who, at last just before a new incarnation, helps the yet less than fully aware mental soul body to return to it's birth home. It is (or was) because of this close association that early man seemed to have a higher innate knowledge of spirituality than we sometimes do. We have grown to the point now where we are more independent of our guides.

Here is another aspect. The newly born and the senior soul are both of mental plane matter near to the highest of the mental subplanes. But... the junior soul has yet to achieve more than just the beginnings of any connection to the higher planes. Above the mental is one which where the beginnings of "creator awareness" are found. Above that one is a higher degree, that of "god functionality, purpose" (here the god within is meant). The next higher plane is where those who have achieved a fuller functionality in the areas of "planetary service (to humanity) are to be found, working. Those who are functional on this plane are conscious on some appropriate sub plane of the Buddhic or Atmic or Manasic planes. (I prefer to use English to tabulate these though) In these we discover creative purpose and we are capable of conscious cooperation with it. Yet through all of this long growth (acquisition of consciousness) the human soul is born to and made of mental plane matter.

The great variable is, as you have suggested, is consciousness. The mental plane, even the higher of the subplanes, does not confer either god awareness or the realizations of the need to serve (conscious cooperation with creative purpose). The business of our mental plane is concerned with incarnated forms on this planet. It is these that are later gained through many thousands of lives on (in this case, Earth). Yet a soul of any degree (awareness on planes above the mental) is made of higher mental plane matter.

Forgive the omission of information regarding the higher planes. At a certain point in growth we will have learned almost all that the Earth can teach. We are then ready for ascension. Yet... our souls are still of higher mental plane matter. They have grown though and are now conscious on much higher levels. Before we leave the Earth scheme permanently behind we will have once again formed groups of kindred souls. At this point we leave behind the aspect of individuality which was necessary on Earth. At that point the new group consciousness allows a final ascension. This is the point of decision. And afterwards a new body of manifestation is realized. Matter of the plane above the mental is now home to the new identity. This is a turning point because we are now capable of leaving the Earth and her heavens behind... or staying in service. At this point it is said that we are Masters (master souls).

A more direct answer is this: A soul may be made of higher mental plane matter but be lacking still in the functionality which comes with the beginnings of connections to the next higher plane... and then the next.... and later the next. In the beginning the guides stay close to assist. When a very junior soul withdraws it's connection resulting in temporal death, the personality in transition needs help to find it's way. It eventually is set aside while yet on the astral. At this point the innate mental vehicle rejoins the soul where it is fully merged. This is in the beginning. Later less help is required. Much later the departed will ascend of it's own accord and rejoin the soul without the assistance of any guide. This marks a major achievement in consciousness. Later the soul becomes a guide to other, more junior souls.... Throughout these times the body of the soul remains "of" the higher mental plane. In the beginning the personality on Earth is innately capable on the higher mental plane but is as yet not sufficiently conscious to realize it. This is because the soul remains relatively aloof. This is shown in the aura with only a spark of activity where the crown will later blossom.

It is not so much the plane of majority that indicates the degree of consciousness but the tentative connections to the planes above that tell the tale.

A man is conscious on the physical, astral, mental and potentially those planes above. At a certain point he or she is also conscious of her or his own soul. This degree of integration marks the beginning of the "return path" to the source. Yet the soul remains on the higher mental plane

It is the composite of plane and sub plane access (from any plane) which determines the degree of consciousness of the form. This degree is eventually more easily discovered in the aura of the Earth form.

Originally Posted by inavalan

I believe that all these astral planes are actually levels of your subconscious. The good / bad designation is a misinterpretation of their depth level.

I understand you.

We are "of" the Earth. The Earth is a series of concentric shells, each larger than the one before. In the center is the physical, then the emotional, then the mental and so on. Our bodies are made of physical matter but they have connections to the other shells too. We are connected to the emotional shell via our solar plexus chakras. We are connected to the mental shell through our head centers... It is through these that we receive our vitality as human beings.

It is realistic and perfectly OK to think of the emotional (astral) plane as being below our level of awareness but we, nonetheless, use it every day. The extremes of emotionalism can make us sick to our stomachs. This is because our solar plexus are the activity points of interface for the emotional plane. I have seen people in deathly fear grasp their mid sections. The reasoning is the same. Conscious or unconscious the functionality is not altered. What do you think?

[freebird]

Hello, and thank you for the answer.

So what about those people that have NDE but don't experience anything?

There are 2 types of people that have NDE, regardless of belief, some experience something while some don't. The latter would say that those who do experience it would be because of an oxygen deprived brain fighting for survival releasing chemicals thus a hallucination type experience would occur.

Scientists tried detecting the soul but they could not . So, if the soul is non-physical how is it connected with the physical? Shouldn't the interface between those 2 be detected?

Originally Posted by bartholomew

One of the reasons we are always met by friends is to help us to adjust to the fact of our having just left the physical body behind. There might be disbelief or even anger. When any of us pass we are met and then we find our place in the lower heavens, the astral and lower mental, where we stay until we are sorted out. This is where the fabled judgement happens. Then we pass again, this time moving to the higher end of the mental plane, the home of souls. Here the landscape is different. We are still in the Earth's heavens but higher, less substantial they seem. We no longer look around us and see the familiar Ethereal Earth. By this time most of us have made the necessary adjustments and we understand. We still have freedom of choice. Those who remain skeptical or he who still wishes he was dead might take a little longer to adjust. They are not left to their own devices though. They are not abandoned. They will feel an impulse... an idea that they are not yet home. Sooner or later they yield to this. And their guide again appears with a smile. We are encouraged, never forced.

Much can be learned by reading accounts of NDE's. The skeptic will meet friends and family as the guide awaits quietly while the religious believer may meet a well know figure from his or her own set of teachings. It is our guide who arranges how we will be met. NDE reports seem to always agree on one thing. The person would rather not come back but does anyway because of what is now realized. Does it seem odd that when we are here we are bid take things on trust but after passing we know more? Why can't we know more now? This is just another aspect of the inherent divisiveness of the lower planes. This is the reason the Earth has religions. They are needed.

Those who die in a state of agitation such as from a drug overdose will require more specialized care by the guide. This is given them. Those who die in anger will need time for it to abate. Those who die knowingly, joyfully, will guide themselves and move rapidly home. The average person dies in stages while advanced souls need no such adjustments.

Of them all suicides are treated differently. They, too, are met in compassionate manner but later when they realize it they are prepared to return almost immediately to try again, to finish up. But this time they have a bit more wisdom.

A last thought is this: In the spiritual worlds, even near to the Earth, we are sorted out according to vibrations. Thus those who pass in an emotional state cannot ascend further until they realize what is needed. This is why guides are so important. On the plane of souls emotions are very subdued. Souls are more mindful than emotional. The very highest sub plane of the astral is known to us as the seventh heaven of tradition. Here is the land of the golden light of those who are senior enough to leave the Earth but who choose to remain, in service.

Sorry for the long answer. It seems Bartholomew always has a lot to say.

Originally Posted by freebird

Hello, and thank you for the answer.

So what about those people that have NDE but don't experience anything?

There are 2 types of people that have NDE, regardless of belief, some experience something while some don't. The latter would say that those who do experience it would be because of an oxygen deprived brain fighting for survival releasing chemicals thus a hallucination type experience would occur.

Scientists tried detecting the soul but they could not . So, if the soul is non-physical how is it connected with the physical? Shouldn't the interface between those 2 be detected?

And thank you for the interesting comments. Not to be glib but if they didn't experience anything how did they know they had a NDE? Isn't there supposed to be some kind of reportable memory upon waking? I agree that it is not only possible but likely that someone on death's door will later have a memory caused by brain activity. There can be no doubt of the heightened level of activity in such a case. Was it a genunine out of body thing or was it an in body thing? Interesting to sort out.

I am very psychic in peculiar ways. But believe me when I say I am a world class skeptic. I won't believe something until I can't explain it otherwise. When I, James, type here on the forum it sometimes is just me. Like now. Other times when I go off into lengthy discourses on some topic there will have been a change in my consciousness. I am still sitting here typing but it's only dictation. My bud Bartholomew is giving the answer. Being conscious I can feel his stress in trying to find a way to satisfactorily explain something. This is the reason Bartholomew's statements are so often so long. OK back to the topic at hand.

I have never had a NDE but I, at almost 78 now, have very clear memories of a day or so before I was born. I remember my parents and how very young they looked. I saw a car that they had borrowed because they didn't have one of their own. I saw their house which turned out to be a motor hotel. I was always above and behind them. When I was about 14 I told this story to my mom because I wanted to know about it. She gasped and replied that we had been in that hotel for only a week before I was born and they had borrowed that car from a friend so they could get to the hospital without calling a cab. They never took any photos of that place or the car and I should not have known about it. This is true!!!! And... my awareness was that of an adult, not a child and certainly not an infant. I was fully aware. What I remember most clearly was the unusual silence of the scene. It was visual only. Was that experience the result of brain activity in the fetus? The above incident is truth. I have tried over the years to debunk it.


Souls are usually on their own plane all the time. The connections to the physical expression will vary. The common, less evolved human being is centered in the combination of emotions and lower mind. The connection from the soul reflects this. A (reported) silver cord made of astral plane matter connects to the solar plexus and and very tenuous connection (from the soul) is made to the head. Later when the soul is more evolved the man or woman on Earth is centered in the combination of heart and mind. Now the silver cord is anchored in the chest area and the thread to the head center is a more substantial quality.

How can a scientist detect these? It should be easy. I can't remember the name of the photographic method where through we can see the aura but the same should reveal these connectors. The reason is because they are made of ethereal plane matter which is only slightly less dense than the physical body. This is the reason so many of us can see "strange things" at times. Most clairvoyants use this facility to good advantage. I can feel ethereal bodies with my hands and do it with ease when doing a reading for someone. Apparently it doesn't matter in the slightest where they are. The thing that brings it all together is the first, the lowest of the subtle (spiritual) planes which are just as much a part of our Earth as the solids, liquids and gasses that we so easily observe. Maybe if science used that photographic method in a moving picture style in a controlled experiment. Set up when the subject is about to go to sleep. When we sleep we leave our physical bodies and usually float just above it. People in meditation sometimes do the same. We call it unconsciousness because the physical seems to be unresponsive but the mind is perhaps not. K photography, moving picture of a person sleeping or meditating might show the ethereal body and maybe the connecting cord too. It's worth considering.

For those who wonder about the specifics of how a soul on the mental plane can connect to a physical form using a cord made of ethereal matter this explanation will hopefully suffice. The soul, using will upon mental matter, sends a cord down through the various subplanes (through the lower mental then astral, all seven subplanes) and into the ethereal plane. On the mental plane this cord is made of mental matter. On the astral plane this cord has shifted down (think electrical step down transformers) to astral matter and on the ethereal it shifts down to ethereal plane matter.

The last part should be better understood. The cord, the connectors are made of ethereal plane matter. They connect to our ethereal doubles, our ethereal bodies which correspond to the physical. These are connected to the physical via the set of 49 chakras of the ethereal body. Via this means we are connected to the Earth's various sheaths and receive our "livingness" through them. The interface between the ethereal body and the physical body is an electrical one. The next interface is chemical. These two functions are important parts of the brain.

Here is one last thought. Remember I said I was a world class skeptic? There are so many examples of psychic activity in the world that we would be hard pressed to try to deny they really do happen. Indeed our military engages in remove viewing which is no less than more of the same. (they still do by the way... they just want our worthy opponents to think they've quit) I do NOT believe in magic (something from nothing. Not even God in heaven can create out of nothing. No. So if there is psychic activity that can be verified how does it work? There must be a medium through which visuals or audios or just vague intuitive ideas travel. This medium is quite real. It is, mostly, the Earth's subtle planes. Most human activity is on the astral, mid to higher range and the mental, mid to higher sub planes. It is through these that visions and ideas and sounds are conveyed. And they are made of the matter through which they travel. And they come into our bodies though the appropriate chakra. And then they are converted to electrical energies (modulated as thought they were radio waves) and finally are sorted out by the brain in the usual way. Remember that the pineal is connected to the visual cortex. Why? This is the physical organ of the third eye. Using this we have clairvoyant and clairaudiant experiences.

The serious researcher will follow the trail and if it dies on the cutting room floor then so be it. But seriously, if one would make a moving picture camera of the Kirlian type much might be observed especially if a video is made of someone asleep or in deep meditation or even during a NDE.

A last tidbit here is to say that I do remote aura examinations but when in person I can easily feel (using my hands) each of the chakras of the subject. I have done this many times. I always question what is going on. It's real.

Thanks for reading...

[Jyotir]

Good thread!

Interesting, helpful...refreshing!

Thank you Bartholomew!!

~ J

[iamthat]

Yes, thank you James.

Some further thoughts on the above.

Yes, the Soul functions on the higher mental sub-planes via the causal body. The causal body is the vehicle of consciousness just as the physical body is the vehicle of personality. The causal body provides the connecting link between the higher planes you mention (Atma-Buddhi-Manas) and the lower planes of personality.

The causal body contains what is termed the Egoic Lotus, which has layers of "petals" labelled knowledge, love and sacrifice (or will). These petals unfold over hundreds or thousands of incarnations. In very simplistic terms, the petals of knowledge unfold through all the learning experiences of life, the petals of love unfold when we are on the path of discipleship, and the petals of will unfold when we enter the portals of Initiation.

There comes a time when the causal body has served its purpose and is no longer needed as a connecting link (in Theosophical terms, this is the 4th Initiation). The Initiate has now built a direct bridge of consciousness between the higher planes and the lower planes. This bridge is called the antahkarana (or sometimes in Western terms, the rainbow bridge). Thus the causal body can be discarded and the Initiate now rests on the plane of Buddhi (or spiritual intuition).

You mention the point of decision. Again in Theosophical terms, this occurs at the 6th Initiation, whereupon the Initiate is a Master resting in Monadic consciousness. At this stage the Master can decide whether to remain on the path of Earth service or leave the Earth behind and continue the journey elsewhere.

Regarding the cord connecting the Soul to the physical body, this is known as the sutratma. As Bartholomew says, it steps down from the mental plane through the astral plane down to the etheric centres. It has two major threads, a thread of life connecting to the heart, and a thread of consciousness connecting to the head. The consciousness thread regularly withdraws from the head (for example, when we sleep). The life thread remains connected to the heart throughout the incarnation - the withdrawal of the life thread means the death of the physical body.

The joys of esoteric philosophy!

Peace