At what point do you let go?

[Starman]

For me it is not about mistakes, rather it is about pain and trust. How deep they
hurt me and can I continue to trust them. If they help me heal the pain the relationship
may be redeemable. There are expectations in a relationship, love may be unconditional
but relationships are based on certain conditions.

If I stay with a person who keeps hurting and disappointing me I am normalizing that
behavior in our relationship, and normalizing such behavior may be unhealthy. The other
person has got to want to sincerely work on the relationship with me otherwise the
relationship may not grow, and it may even become and unhealthy relationship.

There are lots of different types of intimate relationships, i.e. a codependent relationship,
a counter-dependent relationship, and apathetic relationship, etc. These are all examples
of unhealthy relationships. Most often when a person can't let go it is because they are
emotionally enmeshed with the other person, for one reason or another, and do not have
healthy boundaries.

[bluemoon]

[quote=Starman
There are lots of different types of intimate relationships, i.e. a codependent relationship,
a counter-dependent relationship, and apathetic relationship, etc. These are all examples
of unhealthy relationships. Most often when a person can't let go it is because they are
emotionally enmeshed with the other person, for one reason or another, and do not have
healthy boundaries.[/QUOTE]




Brilliantly said.

[Lynn]

Hello

When I honestly thought my kids would be coming home to my dead body. It was the day that I made the best change in my life.

I spent 33 years with my abusive EX, while your going to go OK why ??? there is always a reason that has to unfold for some over time. I do not regret that time, nor do I wish it on anyone to experience. For me it was the path that lead me to whom I am today and whom I am with today.

I was on Skype with my now husband, Heart, and the EX was stoned and came home. He dragged me into the garage and well did what he will with me, I had down screened the Skype. I don't know why I left the Skype open, but for some reason this time I had a greater fear around me about the EX. I felt that I might not survive this time for some reason.

He did what he did then went out again. I came back to the Skype battered but alive....and I had to pull it together before my kids got home from school. This is where Heart and I came to be a couple. He asked me how much more of this I could take and how the kids could live in this situation. I was honest I had not worked in forever, I had no control over the house or finances, and the EX's family was loaded. He would fight for the kids.

I made the "joke" that I would be a poor single Mom (if I got the kids as the EX would pay the mental health card of me "talking to dead people". Who would I turn to ? How would I support things. I said to Heart, marry me and come to Canada to live with me and the kids, and we can get out. I did not mean it seriously on any level. I was trying to re group myself.

Heart said talk to the kids, see if they like the idea of me joining the family, and yes I will marry you. I was stunned. This is something we had never considered or even talked about. We were good friends both in rotten relationships.

Well I had the longest 3 months of my life getting out. Selling a house, avoiding the EX keeping the peace. But I got out, we got out. Looking back I do wonder how, I did it all. The EX slept in the same bed to the day before I left, with the kids in tow. He honestly though I would change my mind, in fear of not being able to do it alone.

It was 5 months that I was LOL a "Single Mom" before Heart could join us. That was almost 5 years ago now. Time flies.

For any person and I say "person" as men too are abused (Heart was by his EX) in a relationship both physically and verbally, do what you can to get out and get out safely.

Do not stay the course, its not worth it. Now why did I stay? I grew in that relationship as odd as that might well seem. I had freedoms to do so many things no one would ever do or maybe want to do. Yes I was abused, but I was able to step out of the body part of me to survive that. I had 3 kids late in life....when we were told we could have none....at 19 and 20 years of age.

I had a path to walk and the Universe had my back with its plan. I so feel that and honor that.

May the EX rot in well you know where....but not by my hand. Trust me I thought of going there. There is no way to "How to Get Away with Murder" in the real world.

Lynn

[Starman]

I used to have a couple of good friends, the female, lets say her name was Karen, and a male who was her live-in boyfriend, lets say his name was David. Now Karen worked and David did not work. David would smoke weed, drink, and hang out with the guys. This made Karen upset because she financially supported David.

Karen would come to me and complain, she would always tell me how she loved David but was not going to put up with him anymore. Then they would have sex and everything was fine again. I would see Karen and she would tell me that they “made up.” Its’ like they would argue just to have make up sex, and after sex everything was fine. But Karen was definitely being manipulated and emotionally abused. This went on for a very long time.

Neither of them would listen to me and I was friend to both of them. The abuse went on for some time and always was resolved, or so they said, when they had sex. They finally split and went their separate ways, but Karen did not have to go through all of that emotional abuse. She was basically ignored by David, and I love them both but it was frustrating for me to see the roller coaster ride they were on.

I have heard women put men down and men put women down, but actually the question needs to be asked “what attracted you to this person in the first place?“ Why do we attract abusive people into our lives? Some women will go through a string of abusive relationships, one right after another. Are the benefits in the relationship more than the price you pay for staying in that relationship? Everything costs something, and relationships should involve compromise, but physical and emotional abuse in my opinion is too high a price to pay.

[JosephineB]

Originally Posted by Starman

I used to have a couple of good friends, the female, lets say her name was Karen, and a male who was her live-in boyfriend, lets say his name was David. Now Karen worked and David did not work. David would smoke weed, drink, and hang out with the guys. This made Karen upset because she financially supported David.

Karen would come to me and complain, she would always tell me how she loved David but was not going to put up with him anymore. Then they would have sex and everything was fine again. I would see Karen and she would tell me that they “made up.” Its’ like they would argue just to have make up sex, and after sex everything was fine. But Karen was definitely being manipulated and emotionally abused. This went on for a very long time.

Neither of them would listen to me and I was friend to both of them. The abuse went on for some time and always was resolved, or so they said, when they had sex. They finally split and went their separate ways, but Karen did not have to go through all of that emotional abuse. She was basically ignored by David, and I love them both but it was frustrating for me to see the roller coaster ride they were on.

I have heard women put men down and men put women down, but actually the question needs to be asked “what attracted you to this person in the first place?“ Why do we attract abusive people into our lives? Some women will go through a string of abusive relationships, one right after another. Are the benefits in the relationship more than the price you pay for staying in that relationship? Everything costs something, and relationships should involve compromise, but physical and emotional abuse in my opinion is too high a price to pay.

Starman, this was a post by member Paragon, I found it interesting and I thought of it when I read your post. What do you think?

paragon
Pathfinder
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 95



This is probably more detail than you wanted, but I got on a roll and just kept typing. I hope someone finds it interesting.

It’s not really a question of what you get out of it (although I’ll get to that). It’s a question of what your dominant energy is. A woman is by nature a physical expression of yin energy; a man is a physical expression of yang. Both energies are present in both sexes of course (represented by the dot on the yin-yang symbol) but by nature a woman has far more yin than yang.

This makes her capable of very deep and beautiful expressions of love, compassion, nurturing etc. - and when someone deeply loves or admires a woman, it is usually for these qualities. But in order to express them to such an extent, the woman needs to feel deeply. As a result of feeling emotions so deeply, a woman tends to be more emotionally fragile than a man. So, in order to find strength and stabilitiy, yin energy seeks the yang energy of a man. When a strong man is found, the woman needs to be able to trust and rely upon the man in order to feel safe and stable. If the woman is second-guessing him, questioning him then she’s not really trusting him, which means she hasn’t really found the safety and stability she was seeking in him.

The extent to which a woman actually becomes submissive once she finds the man varies by each case, but generally it is in proportion to the strength and virtue of the man. If a woman finds a very strong, virtuous man then she will be far more likely to trust him and defer judgments to him. If the woman is truly trusting and submissive and the man is truly virtuous, these tend to be the happiest marriages because they are most in line with nature. The woman is expressing her yin energy but receives yang energy from her husband; the man is expressing his yang energy and receiving yin from his wife - everyone’s happy!

Unfortunately, strong virtuous men are rare these days - and thus, there are fewer women willing to trust a man and defer to his emotional strength. Neverthless, yin still seeks the strength of yang like one pole of a magnet seeks the other. A few different things can happen here. A woman who can’t find a strong, virtuous man to give her safety and stability can attempt to cultivate yang within herself by controlling everything, and worrying about everything that is out of her control. If such a woman marries, she will generally find a weak man that she can boss around. Men hate drama more than anything in the world and so such a weak man will go along with the nagging rather than create an argument. Hence the “yes dear” henpecked husband. A less weak man may lock horns with his wife, resulting in constant arguments. In either case, the man often ends up drinking to escape. These are amongst the worst marriages.

Another option is the woman will seek out a hypermasculine bad-boy in the hopes of taming or rescuing him. So much pure yang is intoxicating to the yin energy, and hence women get into these relationships against all their better judgment, and some women stay in them far longer than they should. Relationships like these completely fail to meet any genuine needs of either partner, and are basically an energy addiction. Because the energy has become intoxicating and addictive, both parties want more, more more. Hence the man expects more submission from the woman, and the woman expects more dominance. At first she might say that she enjoys being handled a little rough, but then it can easily move on to BDSM or outright abuse. It’s unlikely that a woman will enjoy outright abuse, but she feels the yang energy and it feels something like what she’s looking for. Hence, sometimes women stay in such relationships, or leave then come crawling back for more.

There are various other permutations, such as women who look for their yang energy everywhere, and tend to be submissive to everyone. However, these are quite rare and it’s much more common for the woman to attempt to cultivate her own yang energy. But if you put two yangs together in marriage, it’s not going to end well - hence the current divorce rate.

If anyone doubts what I’ve written, know that a whole industry - “Pick up artistry” has sprung up around exploiting this knowledge. The techniques work very, very reliably because they are based on nature. But they are a reverse-engineered exploitation of nature, which is why they are unlkely to produce positive long term results.

If anyone finds any of this offensive, don’t ever read Confucius or classic Taoist texts, as you’ll find them much more offensive.

[Starman]

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

Starman, this was a post by member Paragon, I found it interesting and I thought of it when I read your post. What do you think?

Okay, so this is just my opinion. I think that post puts forth a valid assertion, although it can be described in terms other than yin and yang, but yin and yang are valid. We are attracted to people who fit our conditioning, and that conditioning may come from our parents. Females often want someone like their dad, that is if they had a good relationship with their dad, and the same may be said about males and their moms.

Even if we reject the character of our parents, then we may go out looking for someone who is the opposite of our parents. Nonetheless, people come to relationships with previous baggage, and often that baggage is emotional. All that I am saying here can be translated into how we have molded and formed our own energy. We look for people to have a relationship with that can meet the needs of our own energy, as we have conditioned, or molded and shaped that energy. A person with yin energy can transition, with practice, to having more yang energy.

Very few people come to a relationship unconditioned by previous relationships, even if the conditioning took place during childhood. Add to this that females may unconsciously emulate their mom while males may unconsciously emulate their dad, even if they say I don’t want to be like my parents, they may still model certain aspects of their parents behavior. This molding behavior comes with the relationship, and modeling a behavior is actually molding and shaping our energy in a certain way. A healthy relationship is all about discovery of self and your partner.

A codependent person is often attracted to a counter-dependant person, and a counter-dependant person is often attracted to a codependent person. They complement each other, and that is what most people look for; someone who is going to complement their energetic field, or what they may think their needs are. Below I have briefly outlined how certain caricatures interlock, and while I am using codependency and counter-dependency, this is also true of other types of relationships.

In essence, other people reflect back to us what they see, accurate or not, valid o not, that is what they see. How we subconsciously define a person is how we are going to approach that person and relate to them. Other people may see in us something that is valid which we have yet to see in ourselves. I might say everyone sums up a potential mate, even if only subconsciously, before they enter into a relationship. That summation is based on that person’s energetic conditioning.

(INTERLOCKING MECHANISMS)
COUNTERDEPENDANT - CODEPENDANT
Grandiose- Insecure
Independent- Dependant
Self-Centered- Other Centered
Intrusive- Receptive

These two character types are frequently attracted to each other, and it has a lot to do with their energetic field.. We work directly on our energetic field by what we think, say, feel, and do; and this in turn may form our attitude and perspective. It often takes a lot of work but people can change themselves. We can influence other people, but we can not change other people, nonetheless we can change ourselves.

[JosephineB]

Originally Posted by Starman

Okay, so this is just my opinion. I think that post puts forth a valid assertion, although it can be described in terms other than yin and yang, but yin and yang are valid. We are attracted to people who fit our conditioning, and that conditioning may come from our parents. Females often want someone like their dad, that is if they had a good relationship with their dad, and the same may be said about males and their moms.

Even if we reject the character of our parents, then we may go out looking for someone who is the opposite of our parents. Nonetheless, people come to relationships with previous baggage, and often that baggage is emotional. All that I am saying here can be translated into how we have molded and formed our own energy. We look for people to have a relationship with that can meet the needs of our own energy, as we have conditioned, or molded and shaped that energy. A person with yin energy can transition, with practice, to having more yang energy.

Very few people come to a relationship unconditioned by previous relationships, even if the conditioning took place during childhood. Add to this that females may unconsciously emulate their mom while males may unconsciously emulate their dad, even if they say I don’t want to be like my parents, they may still model certain aspects of their parents behavior. This molding behavior comes with the relationship, and modeling a behavior is actually molding and shaping our energy in a certain way. A healthy relationship is all about discovery of self and your partner.

A codependent person is often attracted to a counter-dependant person, and a counter-dependant person is often attracted to a codependent person. They complement each other, and that is what most people look for; someone who is going to complement their energetic field, or what they may think their needs are. Below I have briefly outlined how certain caricatures interlock, and while I am using codependency and counter-dependency, this is also true of other types of relationships.

In essence, other people reflect back to us what they see, accurate or not, valid o not, that is what they see. How we subconsciously define a person is how we are going to approach that person and relate to them. Other people may see in us something that is valid which we have yet to see in ourselves. I might say everyone sums up a potential mate, even if only subconsciously, before they enter into a relationship. That summation is based on that person’s energetic conditioning.

(INTERLOCKING MECHANISMS)
COUNTERDEPENDANT - CODEPENDANT
Grandiose- Insecure
Independent- Dependant
Self-Centered- Other Centered
Intrusive- Receptive

These two character types are frequently attracted to each other, and it has a lot to do with their energetic field.. We work directly on our energetic field by what we think, say, feel, and do; and this in turn may form our attitude and perspective. It often takes a lot of work but people can change themselves. We can influence other people, but we can not change other people, nonetheless we can change ourselves.

Thank you for your reply.

[Starman]

RELATIONSHIP SATISFACTION SCALE:
5=Very High, 4=High, 3=Fair, 2=Low, 1= Very low

This is a relationship cost/benefit analysis. Below are 20 statements, put a circle in the number, next to the statement, that best describes how you feel about your relationship. When finished add up all the numbers you have circled and divide by 20. The result will be one of the numbers above, which will give you an indication of how you feel about your relationship. You might want to give your partner a blank copy of this to also complete, and both of you compare responses. This is only a tool for discussion and does not indicate anything beyond what you have circled.

1. General emotional contentment
5......4......3......2......1

2. Communication
5......4......3......2......1

3. Companionship
5......4......3......2......1

4. Sharing of Interest
5......4......3......2......1

5. Practical Support
5......4......3......2......1

6. Emotional Support
5......4......3......2......1

7. Growth Support
5......4......3......2......1

8. Feeling loved by my partner
5......4......3......2......1

9. Feeling love towards my partner
5......4......3......2......1

10. Feeling respected by my partner
5......4......3......2......1

11. Feeling respect for my partner
5......4......3......2......1

12. Feeling trusted by my partner
5......4......3......2......1

13. Feeling trusting of my partner
5......4......3......2......1

14. Feeling nurtured by my partner
5......4......3......2......1

15. Feeling nurturing towards my partner
5......4......3......2......1

16. Enjoyment
5......4......3......2......1

17. Warmth
5......4......3......2......1

18. Sexual satisfaction
5......4......3......2......1

19. Feeling of self-esteem in the relationship
5......4......3......2......1

20. Desire to spend time with my partner
5......4......3......2......1

[Bornonthecusp]

Thank you so much for posting the relationship evaluation scale, Starman. That really helped me to face the truth about my relationship (very similar to the story of David and Karen minus the living situation) But yeah, we've both known deep down that it wasn't going to work and ignored all red flags on both sides, and then this weekend I made the decision to move forward alone and while it hurts I know it's right for both of us. So thank you for helping me to make a healthy decision

[Starman]

Hi Bornonthecusp, Hang-in there, there will be you missing that person and also some hurt, but it is better to have and amiable breakup then to breakup angry, which usually happens in dysfunctional relationships. Both of you sound mature enough to recognize that this was coming, which says that you do have a modicum of healthy boundaries. Even if a relationship does not last, it still may bear useful fruit for your continuing journey. With each ending comes a new beginning, and with each beginning comes and ending, but there is continuity and something that has passed often leaves remnants that remain.

Peace