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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #151  
Old 12-08-2020, 12:37 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Again lots to your post in entirety but if I address this aspect it may shed some light on the rest --

What happens in regards to the start of non existence is through realising (or being) what you are that is beyond I AM .

I AM only exists when there is awareness of I AM . That's stands to reason doesn't it . Of the mind one is always aware of I AM .

What peeps do is they realise what they are that is beyond I AM and automatically conclude that I AM must be illusory or non existent so to speak .

This is the mistake as I see it .

To pass I AM off as an illusion because it alludes to separation is incorrect .

One cannot give up I AM and then continue to experience as no one lol .

There would be no experience if I AM was absent .

This is why when the world ceases to be I AM ceases to be .

This is beyond the sense of oneself, it is beyond awareness of oneself, it is beyond mind and beyond ego .

It becomes twisted and distorted and misunderstood when peeps start to deny their very own sense of self awareness ..

There is either I AM presence or not . To have such a presence and deny it, is as silly as a silly sausage can be .



x daz x

Hehe, I actually did laugh out loud when I read this line.
"One cannot give up I AM and then continue to experience as no one lol ."

But yes, you have explained that as well I expect as someone, who is not noone, could have explained it.
And now no one can say 'you just don't get it.' But that is what no ones always say...or would say if they existed.
.
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  #152  
Old 12-08-2020, 12:51 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Again lots to your post in entirety but if I address this aspect it may shed some light on the rest --

What happens in regards to the start of non existence is through realising (or being) what you are that is beyond I AM .

I AM only exists when there is awareness of I AM . That's stands to reason doesn't it . Of the mind one is always aware of I AM .

What peeps do is they realise what they are that is beyond I AM and automatically conclude that I AM must be illusory or non existent so to speak .

This is the mistake as I see it .

To pass I AM off as an illusion because it alludes to separation is incorrect .

One cannot give up I AM and then continue to experience as no one lol .

There would be no experience if I AM was absent .

This is why when the world ceases to be I AM ceases to be .

This is beyond the sense of oneself, it is beyond awareness of oneself, it is beyond mind and beyond ego .

It becomes twisted and distorted and misunderstood when peeps start to deny their very own sense of self awareness ..

There is either I AM presence or not . To have such a presence and deny it, is as silly as a silly sausage can be .



x daz x
It seems like spiritual people think that when I AM/the SELF ceases to be, these spiritual people will experience or reach, oneness, bliss, and enlightenment, and this is contradictory and is chasing a dream, which will never happen because it is not possible.
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All we see with our mind and senses is Brahman, but we are not recognizing it as Brahman. And this is maya, ignorance, the cause of all suffering. Brahman is Objective truth/reality and our true inner objective self.
subjective
5: lacking in reality or substance : ILLUSORY
objective
1a: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.
Definitions from merriam-webster.com
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  #153  
Old 12-08-2020, 01:06 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
So you think the ego is only the individuality of the mind? What about physical abuse, and neglect?

I am sure an infant is aware/conscious of his/her individual physical body is wet, soiled, cold and hungry. And an infant believes everything his/her parents say as truth. The individual body is the self/SELF as much as the mental sense of I/self/SELF is, hence the mind-body connection.

Edit: the sense of self/SELF, conditioned or tainted with fear or not is the individual, both physically and mentally.

I expect there is not much to be gained from this interaction as we are operating from two different paradigms. It seems to me that you are envisioning the ego as an integral part of the human at birth. And reflexive reactions of the body as happenings that are the doings of that mind contained in that body, that has or is that ego. Doings of 'choice' of an I, that exists from birth and is that doer. Perhaps even that the ego existed prior to birth and associated itself to the body at birth?? IDK. Almost like the ego is a part of the soul. If so, that is not a wrong paradigm, but is a different one then the one I am using here.

I do not see the body as the self, nor do I see the ego as the self. Both of these things are transitory, always changing. Yes the mind comes to identify itself with first the body and then the ego as a part of the life experience, but that is a process of identification. Those things become identified with the self during life to the point where during the life experience, they may come to feel as if they are only what self is. And many a materialist may argue that indeed they are, that self itself is temporary and transitory and will cease to exist at death. If so, then I suppose at death the self will indeed become no one.

An infant cannot understand nor believe anything it's parents say. It is still at the early stages of pairing auditory nerve signal patters with other nerve signal patterns and trying to look for consistent correlations. Based on which it will build an internal picture of reality, a virtual reality in which it will eventually build a virtual reality avatar of self, that ego model of self from which to view that internal virtual world as a separate self. A virtual reality world in which it will live out its entire life. More often then not, the human will live out its life believing that the ego avatar is itself, and that the self created virtual world it is living as that avatar in, is really something out there, something physical and separate from itself. Believing it to be an objective reality that exists independent of itself. Never really questioning any of it because it seems so much like common sense, and that is the resounding opinion of most of its kind.
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  #154  
Old 12-08-2020, 02:51 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
I expect there is not much to be gained from this interaction as we are operating from two different paradigms. It seems to me that you are envisioning the ego as an integral part of the human at birth. And reflexive reactions of the body as happenings that are the doings of that mind contained in that body, that has or is that ego. Doings of 'choice' of an I, that exists from birth and is that doer. Perhaps even that the ego existed prior to birth and associated itself to the body at birth?? IDK. Almost like the ego is a part of the soul. If so, that is not a wrong paradigm, but is a different one then the one I am using here.

I do not see the body as the self, nor do I see the ego as the self. Both of these things are transitory, always changing. Yes the mind comes to identify itself with first the body and then the ego as a part of the life experience, but that is a process of identification. Those things become identified with the self during life to the point where during the life experience, they may come to feel as if they are only what self is. And many a materialist may argue that indeed they are, that self itself is temporary and transitory and will cease to exist at death. If so, then I suppose at death the self will indeed become no one.

An infant cannot understand nor believe anything it's parents say. It is still at the early stages of pairing auditory nerve signal patters with other nerve signal patterns and trying to look for consistent correlations. Based on which it will build an internal picture of reality, a virtual reality in which it will eventually build a virtual reality avatar of self, that ego model of self from which to view that internal virtual world as a separate self. A virtual reality world in which it will live out its entire life. More often then not, the human will live out its life believing that the ego avatar is itself, and that the self created virtual world it is living as that avatar in, is really something out there, something physical and separate from itself. Believing it to be an objective reality that exists independent of itself. Never really questioning any of it because it seems so much like common sense, and that is the resounding opinion of most of its kind.
You are basicly saying that I think fear, pain and suffering are an integral part of the human at birth, when I do think that...

I simply accept that the ego/the mentally, emotionally and physically conditioned sense of self/I am just happens/forms in the self/I am whom has experiences of fear, pain and suffering. Physical pain, suffering and discomfort is both physical and mental for the self/I am.

An infant does not and cannot think I AM because the infant does not know how to use words to speak/talk at all yet, let alone say I AM. The infant can only feel the presence of his/her individual physical presence/existence.

Try and practice feeling your own presence of your individual physical presence/existence in the present moment/eternal right here and right now. You feeling your own presence of your individual physical presence/existence in the present moment/eternal right here and right now is all there is!

Thoughts and thinking requires a person to use words, or to put it in another way, thoughts and thinking are nothing except words in our minds.

It is not a matter if an infant has a sense of physical or mental self or not, it is a matter of the infant learning to speak.
__________________
All we see with our mind and senses is Brahman, but we are not recognizing it as Brahman. And this is maya, ignorance, the cause of all suffering. Brahman is Objective truth/reality and our true inner objective self.
subjective
5: lacking in reality or substance : ILLUSORY
objective
1a: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.
Definitions from merriam-webster.com
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  #155  
Old 12-08-2020, 03:06 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Just so everyone knows, Mental and emotional conditioning based on fear, pain and suffering, including that which ignores and escapes your fear, pain and suffering to feel good, pleasure, bliss and etc etc is all subjective/subjectivity and is the same subjective/subjectivity people like JASG preach and promote. The dictionary even tells you this in writing people!
__________________
All we see with our mind and senses is Brahman, but we are not recognizing it as Brahman. And this is maya, ignorance, the cause of all suffering. Brahman is Objective truth/reality and our true inner objective self.
subjective
5: lacking in reality or substance : ILLUSORY
objective
1a: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.
Definitions from merriam-webster.com
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  #156  
Old Yesterday, 11:08 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Hehe, I actually did laugh out loud when I read this line.
"One cannot give up I AM and then continue to experience as no one lol ."

But yes, you have explained that as well I expect as someone, who is not noone, could have explained it.
And now no one can say 'you just don't get it.' But that is what no ones always say...or would say if they existed.
.

Glad you got a laugh out of it


x daz x
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