Yale Scientist abanding Darwin's Evolution

[BigJohn]

CREATION VS EVOLUTION

Creation lost ground in the Jewish, Christian and Muslim arena due to losing ground
dealing with the Great Flood story. The geological records does not support such a
flood but what is more devastating is Jesus reference the Flood several times.

At the same time, Hindu/Buddhist faiths have been able to hold there own.

Surprising, Evolution has been moving fast to answer difficult questions as more information emerges to support their
positions. While at the same time, the various religions, in many cases, have a difficult time to support their positions.

I think religion might be losing............

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

CREATION VS EVOLUTION

Creation lost ground in the Jewish, Christian and Muslim arena due to losing ground
dealing with the Great Flood story. The geological records does not support such a
flood but what is more devastating is Jesus reference the Flood several times.

At the same time, Hindu/Buddhist faiths have been able to hold there own.

Surprising, Evolution has been moving fast to answer difficult questions as more information emerges to support their
positions. While at the same time, the various religions, in many cases, have a difficult time to support their positions.

I think religion might be losing............

The Hindu mythology also includes a flood story:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth

Geological records DO show evidence for a great flood which occured at the end of the last Yunger-Dryas era, some 11,000 - 12,500 years ago submerging cities like Dwarka off the coast of India...just ask Robert Shoch... he will tell you..

I just think that the Christians exaggerated the flood a tad....just a bit...

However, the Hindu creation myth involves a lotus sprouting from the navel of a sleeping God while an ocean of milk gets churned using an upturned mountain resting on the back of a giant tortoise with a huge five-headed snake for a churning rope..

How we Hindus have still managed to be taken seriously and to "hold our own" is totally beyond me.

However, we don't need to support our positions, because God does.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

My evidence for doing so, is based purely on mathematics and repeating patterns of fractal vectors relating to the Fibonacci sequence and the Golden Mean... everything from nautilus shells, to pine cones to the arrangement of kernels in a sunflower, to romanesco broccoli to the spiral arms of galaxies to the complex eye of a fly.. My instincts tell me that something that knows what it is doing is behind all that.

What do you speculate re the sadness and harm in the world then? Why does that happen?

Do you feel sad about the suffering of the world?

I don’t know why I’m stalking you recently, dear One, but am.

Namaste.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by janielee

What do you speculate re the sadness and harm in the world then? Why does that happen?

Do you feel sad about the suffering of the world?

I don’t know why I’m stalking you recently, dear One, but am.

Namaste.

I like being stalked.

What I perceive, is that people forget their true nature - the one they had as an infant - before social conditioning and trying to exist in a world that makes absolutely no sense to them.

Some are just blindly ignorant, in that they are not aware there is even any other option or alternative than to exist the way they do.

Others are wilfully ignorant in that they know there is an alternative, but choose not to take it - they prefer swallowing that blue pill and yet kick themselves their whole life for not taking the red one.

Then, they blame free-will for all of the manure they get themselves into, when that same free-will can get themselves out of it, but the risk vs reward outcome is too great, so they prefer to stick with all of those "devils they know" as opposed to all of those "angels they do not".

This is why I believe suffering happens.

I don't really feel sad about all of the suffering in the world..I mean, it would be really great if it wasn't there...but it is and I realise there is nothing I can do about it.

I try not to ruminate over things that will increase the level of the generalised depressive disorder that I already have and try to focus on all the nice, positive things instead.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Science is full of "theories" which have been accepted as fact...it is pretty much what science IS.

Evolutionists have "theories" and Creationists have "beliefs"...much of a muchness, if you ask me.

Strange, I find the same thing with Spirituality, only often it's far messier. The pretentious phrase "Universal Truths" is used and when others are trying to debunk someone else's Universal Truths, they relegate them to the status of personal truths (note the lack of upper-case). Often though, truths are no more than opinions with very little knowledge behind them. At least science goes through a process before it's accepted as a fact.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I try...I really do try my friend...but nobody WANTS to know! They believe that if they close their eyes, it will all just go away...but oh wait...maybe it DOES.

Nassim Haramein is brilliant by the way.

My dear SD, it's a Journey to Self. It's not a Journey to others or a Journey to religion or Spirituality, a Journey to Self. After that it's the 'contents' of Self in whatever shape or form that takes - what we are full of.

I've been watching some Penn and Teller Fool Us YouTubes recently and realised what I'm missing in Spirituality. I'm missing the magic the Child Inside felt when Spirituality was a whole new landscape stretched out before me. Today there are too many answers, far too few questions and way too many opinions as truths. Not to mention eye-closing and associated agenda. Lack of inspiration has become a cold, dark, dank dungeon.

Yeah he is damned cool. He's also very down-to-earth and not at all pretentious considering he's such a brilliant mind.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Just checked out Nassim Haramein and watched a discussion wth him.

He seems very down to Earth, yet brilliant.

Thanks Greenslade and Shivani Devi for bringing him to my attention.

Will check out more when given time.

Side note: I think many scientists don't bring in religious/spiritual beliefs into being part of or influencing thier research because doing so may impact the funding received for thier research. Making it seem more religious based, then academic perhaps.

When I watch the videos I get the feeling that NH is very Spiritual and he goes p[laces most scientists don't, because he talks of science and consciousness in the same sentence. I guess he doesn't want to look too hippyfied in front of his peers. One of the things he did say that made me wonder when he was talking about quantum entanglement, according to him consciousness is in a feedback loop with the Unified Field, which started me thinking on all kinds of things. If we used the words Unified Field/Field of Probability for God, how different would Spirituality look?


If you like this stuff, have a gander at Rupert Sheldrake too. His background is religious and he spent a lot of time touring India and the like, but he's a scientist too. I like his morphogenic field stuff, that's pretty thought-provoking.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Talk about a propensity to negatively stereotype 'Spiritual' folks (that is, whoever he decides to hang that label on)! It strikes me that's a button he never gets tired of pushing (for some 'reason' which presently escapes me, undoubtedly!).

I tell it like I see it too David, the only difference between you and I is that I don't have an alter ego to maintain like you have - one that slips once in a while. Also, I have a variety of expression that you seem to lack, sadly, which your tunnel-visioned perspective seems to lack. How is seeing Life through two toilet rolls held up to your eyes working out for you?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Strange, I find the same thing with Spirituality, only often it's far messier. The pretentious phrase "Universal Truths" is used and when others are trying to debunk someone else's Universal Truths, they relegate them to the status of personal truths (note the lack of upper-case). Often though, truths are no more than opinions with very little knowledge behind them. At least science goes through a process before it's accepted as a fact.

My dear SD, it's a Journey to Self. It's not a Journey to others or a Journey to religion or Spirituality, a Journey to Self. After that it's the 'contents' of Self in whatever shape or form that takes - what we are full of.

I've been watching some Penn and Teller Fool Us YouTubes recently and realised what I'm missing in Spirituality. I'm missing the magic the Child Inside felt when Spirituality was a whole new landscape stretched out before me. Today there are too many answers, far too few questions and way too many opinions as truths. Not to mention eye-closing and associated agenda. Lack of inspiration has become a cold, dark, dank dungeon.

Yeah he is damned cool. He's also very down-to-earth and not at all pretentious considering he's such a brilliant mind.

I agree on all fronts.

We should not have to begin any spiritual discourse with a disclaimer. The mistake, of course, is expecting others to know that this is only our personal opinion, one of many variables...however, they will still say "no, you are wrong" nonetheless..however, they are entitled to their opinion as well.

The misunderstanding occurs when any logical explanation of why another would say "you are wrong" doesn't eventuate...shucks, I may have actually learned something.

In my philosophy, my religion and my understanding, the only "Universal Truth" is called Brahman. It is something beyond words..nobody can speak about it without everybody being "wrong" and hence why it is a "Universal Truth".

Yes, I agree with you about how much Spirituality has changed (or I have) since I experienced my very first awakening...back when I was 17 years old. It was all new, all fresh..I felt like I was walking on clouds.. everything shone from within, being self-illuminated with the Divine, Source energy..I couldn't stop smiling and laughing..it was all just beautifully crazy and I would go into such deep trance states that would last for days..I could connect with Spirit and Mother Earth and just be a carefree nomad..and there were many around me who were just like myself..there was this "knowing" without words...this sharing of peace and love...and no, drugs were not involved, but it was like they were.

Then I "grew up", got married, had kids of my own, had a mortgage, many responsibilities and all of what I felt just began to slowly seep away over the next 20 years..

Then 10 years ago, I decided to get back into it..into the whole "spiritual trip"....during that time, I have had about a dozen really nice, great experiences..a couple of them were pretty mind blowing...but nothing whatsoever like they were before I got married..and often, I wonder if I could ever reach those spiritual highs again..whether all of that is still "in there somewhere" or whether this is gonna be as good as it gets now.

Meanwhile, I honestly know that speaking about spiritual things on a spiritual forum isn't really doing me any favors either, but it is one way to pass the time..one of many ways..

[Shivani Devi]

Honestly? Brutally? Sincerely?

The focus of modern scientific thought (as it has pretty much ALWAYS been) is to "demystify the mystical" thus bringing things like beauty, love, awe, inspiration, wonderment and joy into the domain of cold, hard, unemotional, empirical rationalism. Modern neuroscience is notorious for it.

I just read an article called "This is Your Brain on God" in which neurotheologists (see, there is even a SCIENCE for it) compared the brains of devout believers in God to those of Atheists and measured all of the chemicals. They found chemical differences, structural differences and then said that feelings of love, Grace, devotion etc were nothing more than just chemicals in the brain...and a thousand fluffy kittens just died.

Now days, "Spiritual Awakening" means having more DMT in your pineal gland, combined with dormant genes switching on in your "Junk DNA" combined with better connections across the synapses leading to increased serotonin and dopamine levels...so cold! so clinical! and all of that child-like innocence, to appreciate the beauty, wonder, magic and "newness" is replaced with "oh, it is just my brain doing its 'brain thing'...big deal!"

The scientists have taken it from the realm of the 'spiritual' into the realm of the 'physical'...."oh, that NDE thing? that's just what happens when your brain is starved of oxygen.." "oh you say that valerian helps you to sleep? That is just the placebo effect.." there is a freaking explanation for EVERYTHING and the internets puts it all out there...oh yes it does!

Back when I was 17 when I felt what I did...I became "enlightened" because nobody knew all this stuff..the mystical was still mysterious, the occult was still esoteric and not exoteric..people didn't downplay experiences by saying "oh, you just had a rush of dopamine..no biggie"..they downplayed experiences by saying "oh, I see you can still talk about it! back to the meditation room you go!" LOL

How times have changed...

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Honestly? Brutally? Sincerely?

The focus of modern scientific thought (as it has pretty much ALWAYS been) is to "demystify the mystical" thus bringing things like beauty, love, awe, inspiration, wonderment and joy into the domain of cold, hard, unemotional, empirical rationalism. Modern neuroscience is notorious for it.

I just read an article called "This is Your Brain on God" in which neurotheologists (see, there is even a SCIENCE for it) compared the brains of devout believers in God to those of Atheists and measured all of the chemicals. They found chemical differences, structural differences and then said that feelings of love, Grace, devotion etc were nothing more than just chemicals in the brain...and all of those fluffy kittens just died.

Now days, "Spiritual Awakening" means having more DMT in your pineal gland, combined with dormant genes switching on in your "Junk DNA" combined with better connections across the synapses leading to increased serotonin and dopamine levels...so cold! so clinical! and all of that child-like innocence, to appreciate the beauty, wonder, magic and "newness" is replaced with "oh, it is just my brain doing its 'brain thing'...big deal!"

The scientists have taken it from the realm of the 'spiritual' into the realm of the 'physical'...."oh, that NDE thing? that's just what happens when your brain is starved of oxygen.." "oh you say that valerian helps you to sleep? That is just the placebo effect.." there is a freaking explanation for EVERYTHING and the internets puts it all out there...oh yes it does!

Back when I was 17 when I felt what I did...I became "enlightened" because nobody knew all this stuff..the mystical was still mysterious, the occult was still esoteric and not exoteric..people didn't downplay experiences by saying "oh, you just had a rush of dopamine..no biggie"..they downplayed experiences by saying "oh, I see you can still talk about it! back to the meditation room you go!" LOL

How times have changed...

All that is true, but it tends to ignore the spiritual side of the physical phenomena. Even neuroscientists are starting to realise that there is a non-physical or subtler side to neurological processes. The notorious atheist and neuro-scientist Sam Harris would be a prime example of someone who is increasingly acknowledging the spiritual dimension of life. Astonishingly, he is even open to the idea of reincarnation and has said more than once that he cannot rule it out as a possibility and there is some undeniable evidence in support of it.

Then there is Eben Alexander, another neuroscientist, who was of course a committed materialist until his week-long NDE, out of which came the book "Proof of Heaven". There are also many physicists who are at least open to the idea of an unseen spiritual dimension, with Michio Kaku, the String theorist, probably the most prominent amongst them. His description of what higher-dimensional beings would be like and capable of, closely match my own experiences with them, so I would pay close attention to his work.

As for DMT, that is just the physical manifestation of Soma, "The Spirit Molecule" as it is otherwise known. He is not a scientist as such, but researcher Graham Hancock has done some excellent work in unearthing the significance of DMT to various cultures.