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Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.
We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.
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25-08-2022, 11:27 PM
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 24,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagner
Thank you for telling me, Miss Hepburn. I apologize.
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Lol! My dog makes bigger mistakes than this!
__________________
.*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)
Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru.
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26-08-2022, 12:22 AM
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Knower
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ooohh
Posts: 238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Lol! My dog makes bigger mistakes than this!
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Are they colored in Navy Blue as well?
__________________
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26-08-2022, 06:40 AM
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Suspended
Guide
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 648
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@Native spirit.............ThanKs for your reply Native spirit.I think I knew that,I was just testing the water.
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26-08-2022, 02:05 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagner
It seems that your entire response to me is focused on condescension towards your strawman argument against me that I've never had "direct experiences" and am essentially an armchair poser mystic; an argument which you've peppered (DOUSED), of course, with anecdotes of your own. Is that correct? I wouldn't want to be "REGURGITATING" Sri Yukteswar's words...
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Not at all.
I was once an intellectually-challenged regurgitator myself until .... I encountered a mind-boggling, life-transforming teacher whose opening words to me were:
"Question everything, including what I say, and, if a teacher can't POINT you to the DIRECT EXPERIENCES, then go elsewhere."
Practicing under her was very frustrating at times and I walked out several times before realizing that, without the DIRECT EXPERIENCES, one is just a talking-head repeating second hand-information. One doesn't really KNOW until one has had the direct experiences.
Even before meeting her, I had a mysterious 9-year connection with a black "homeless" man on the streets of New York City. I felt quite superior to him .... until he revealed himself ... at which point I realized that he was light years ahead of me. When I asked him why he hadn't spoken to me like this before, he simply responded: "You're weren't even at a level where we could discuss basics". Some one like you might consider such a statement to be "condescending" but I immediately realized that it was true. At that point, intellectually-challenged me was ready to enter the realm of direct experiences.
There are indeed teachers out there who can point one to the direct experiences but, like my black "homeless" sage of yesteryear, they generally appear very ordinary outwardly and have either a small following or no following at all.
On the other hand, there are countless teachers out there with very large followings who will cater to the masses and stroke their egos. They too serve a purpose ... in the beginning.
Choose what works best for you.
NOTE: Sri Yukteswar, whose words are reported in the opening post of this thread, had a very very small following.
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26-08-2022, 02:17 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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Commingle with the Eternal - Ultimately, there is no plurality
"Only when a being has no further desires for experiences in the pleasing-to-the-eye astral cosmos, and cannot be tempted to go back there, does he remain in the causal world. Completing there the work of redeeming all causal karma or seeds of past desires, the confined soul thrusts out the last of the three corks of ignorance and, emerging from the final jar of the causal body, commingles with the Eternal."
*********
That's an intriguing way of putting it ..... "commingles with the Eternal".
That brought to mind the Kabbalistic interpretation of the Shema prayer that observant Jews say at least once daily. The last word, "Echad", is generally translated as "One". However, the esteemed Kabbalistic Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan translated it as: " Ultimately there is no plurality. We are all one with God". This is consistent with passages that I have quoted on this thread from the Sri Yukteswar chapter. The key word is " ultimately".
NOTE: The reference to the "final jar" in the Yukteswar quote reminded me of this visual image which is somewhat related ( ):
religion jar.jpg
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26-08-2022, 03:33 PM
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Guide
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 648
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Nobody knows everything.
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26-08-2022, 05:41 PM
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Master
Join Date: May 2016
Location: U.S. Southwest
Posts: 2,658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazada guess
Nobody knows everything.
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All any of us know, regardless of our astute spiritual awareness, are the concepts
we form with words and mental images, but those words and mental images are
not the things themselves, they are only poor references to those things that may
be beyond words and images, things that are unknowable by human standards of
knowing.
Epistemology is the human philosophy of knowledge. It examines the methods.
validity, and scope, of knowledge. Basically human beings know things through
their five senses, or a sixth sense. Zen Buddhism talks about in order to know
something you have to become one with that something. Our existence, in this
world and beyond, is based on experience, but what about existence beyond
experience?
Experience is an interpretation of existence which we further interpret in words,
feelings, and mental images.
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27-08-2022, 12:58 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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QUOTE 37 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
All any of us know... are the concepts we form with words and mental images, but those words and mental images are not the things themselves
Our existence, in this world and beyond, is based on experience, but what about existence beyond experience?
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Thank you for your awesomely refreshing insightful post.
https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...4&postcount=37
1. As I too have said repeatedly, concepts are " NOT the things themselves".
2. Your Zen Buddhist point is also well taken and Yukteswar says something very similar, as I've quoted previously: "“Unlike the spacial, three-dimensional physical world cognized only by the five senses, the astral spheres are visible to the all-inclusive sixth sense—intuition”. That "sixth sense", as you noted in your Zen comment, is accessible here-and-now on the earth plane. Yukteswar calls it "intuition"; Pantanjali calls it "samadhi"; I call it "pure intuition". I think that we are all saying virtually the same thing about the process albeit in different words.
3. Lastly, what caught my attention most in your post was the following question that you raised: "what about existence beyond experience". Yukteswar points to that when he said: "Completing there the work of redeeming all causal karma or seeds of past desires, the confined soul thrusts out the last of the three corks of ignorance and, emerging from the final jar of the causal body, commingles with the Eternal". You are virtually the only one here who raises the question of "existence beyond experience" and an experiencer.
Please elaborate further on that point of yours --- "existence beyond experience" --- as I would love to hear what you have to say about this. I have meditated on this specific subject extensively and have had some intriguing relevant discussions with extraordinary beings.
NOTE: Too many people get stuck in concepts which, as you point out, is NOT the thing itself. In addition, they often don't have validating direct experiences so I view them as talking heads repeating second hand information. Too many people also seem unaware of the Zen process (Pantanjali Yoga Sutra process as well) whereby one becomes one with the object. Lastly, I suspect that there are very few people here, if any, who will even understand your final question. Great post!
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27-08-2022, 03:11 PM
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Suspended
Guide
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 648
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NOTE: Too many people get stuck in concepts which, as you point out, is NOT the thing itself. In addition, they often don't have validating direct experiences so I view them as talking heads repeating second hand information. Too many people also seem unaware of the Zen process (Pantanjali Yoga Sutra process as well) whereby one becomes one with the object. Lastly, I suspect that there are very few people here, if any, who will even understand your final question. Great post!
I hope your not referring to me,who by the way is following his own path.Not someone else's.
ps I never preach second hand knowledge.
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27-08-2022, 07:31 PM
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Master
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Our existence, in this world and beyond, is based on experience, but what about existence beyond experience? Experience is an interpretation of existence which we further interpret in words,
feelings, and mental images.
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So we could say that all experience is a manifestation within existence. Experiences come and go but existence remans unchanged.
Which is the same as saying that all form is a manifestation within formlessness. Forms come and go but formlessness remains unchanged.
Various philosophies teach that our nature is formlessness, and identification with formlessness is realised when we go beyond the worlds of form, the physical, astral and mental. The causal realms pertain to the higher mental plane, and the higher realms beyond are the realms of the Soul or Consciousness.
In other words, to repeat the above quote from Sri Yukteswar:" ...the confined soul thrusts out the last of the three corks of ignorance and, emerging from the final jar of the causal body, commingles with the Eternal". The three corks of ignorance referring to the three worlds of form.
Then, as it says in the Gita, the Sage sees action in inaction and inaction in action.
Peace
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