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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #711  
Old 15-12-2022, 04:32 AM
Redchic12 Redchic12 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,336
 
ahh Joe im totally in agreement with you.
  #712  
Old 15-12-2022, 04:53 AM
O K Viswanath
Posts: n/a
 
There are two types of Floating of Boat in an Ocean.

One, is the Boat free from Tied up to anything, and moves and never hesitates to go to the deep ocean.

Another, is the boat tied to the shore. Mostly People assume that I am Floating - so no problem, but failed to see that they are tied up to the shore even though the Boat is Floating, and hesitate to go deep in fear of Losing the shore and it's beauty.

Every Boat/Body Floats if it is alive (Only taken to Repairs Shed if it is Dead/Damaged). But, What matters is the Boat not to be interested in the Shore/Land. The Boat will suffer if it tied up to the shore, of missing the objects in the shore time to time and at end leaving those. Boat has to Float FREE, fearless.

This is the Flaw in taking any Teachings/words Partial. If you play by taking partial assuming to be understood whole, then it is Hypocrisy.
- It comes to my memory of "Freedom From Hypocrisy" - one of the Knowledge I quoted from Bhagavat Gita in Hinduism thread.

School of Life - very lenient, and so leads to Sufferings.
School of Death - very Strict, and so leads to Peace.

In Vedic Astrology, there are two Planets which are mentioned for Moksha. One is Ketu (South node of Shadow Planet), and another is Saturn. Ketu provides loss in any desires of Material Desires, and so leads to the Heart of Bliss/Peace. But, Saturn, very strict - beats from the head to the toe, to test one's patience. In case of Spirituality, lenient is not a real presence but an imaginary. Harshness is Guaranteed.
Planets like Venus,Rahu,Sun,Mercury,Mars - none can provide Moksha. Jupiter can provide Knowledge. But, with that Knowledge, if one goes back to Venus,Sun,Mercury,Moon,Rahu,Jupiter instead of going forward to meeting Saturn,Ketu to face the harshness of reality....is like going round and round and round, just bondage to material pleasures. One has to face Death/Satan to understand Death/Satan, to really learn like Nachiketa learnt from Death.
- It comes to my memory of "Not Clinging to Spouse,children,etc., and contemplating the harshness/evil of Birth,Youth,etc." - one of the Knowledge I quoted from Bhagavat Gita in Hinduism thread.
Yeah, That same BG again.
  #713  
Old 15-12-2022, 10:00 AM
Redchic12 Redchic12 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,336
 
Re previous comments

AnotherBob, Molelearner great comments and Iím probably on the same page as both of you.

Viswanath

You state that some of the previous teachers such as Ramana told people to ďfind out who is it that wants such an experience rather than seeking any experienceĒ and they kept on repeating it so people got bored. Perhaps if they had told people HOW to do it in a simple way, then they might have had better luck. I mean honestly do you think the average person out there could understand that statement. I donít think so. Many wouldnít have a clue what the hÖÖ.that was all about. And why keep on repeating something that has no affect.

We are all at different levels of intelligence from semi literate to intellectual and we canít all learn in the same way and we DEFINITELY canít understand things in exactly the same way re the above statement.

I donít think ALL people do want a more fashionable way of looking at something or a charismatic teacher who makes them feel good. (Well perhaps a few). But Iíve found that people on the spiritual path Just want something short and simple that they can understand and come away from the talk feeling more positive about their life.

Many times it is NOT what is being said that is a problem but the WAY IT IS PRESENTED to people that is the problem.

Iíve been a teacher of different things most of my life, teaching small kids right thru to adults. Over the years Iíve constantly looked at ways I could improve my skills to help each one understand what I am trying to get thru to them. Iíve found most people have a short attention span and their mind wanders after a short time, so you have to be very clear, simple and short then they can actually get it. You just feed small amounts at a time and then you will have success.

Too much information and instruction is disastrous, only the few will get it, most will switch off. Thatís how it is in this fast paced society.

One person who has got this down to a fine art and is extremely successful with his message is Sadhguru. Iím not saying that his beliefs are correct, Iím only saying that the way he presents his beliefs are simple enough for everyone to understand and he keeps it brief.

Another is Sparrow who also presents his message in a clear simple manner.

Ok well they are my thoughts. Not saying Iím right, I can only express what has worked for me over the years.


Omg here I am raving on about short and simple and ended up writing all of this!!! Humble apologies LOL
  #714  
Old 15-12-2022, 10:13 AM
hazada guess hazada guess is offline
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Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 479
 
Redchic12............I totally agree with you. Regarding Zorkchop's posts for example, I found myself struggling to keep my concentration but I got most of it in.
I much prefer short and to the point posts, in fact I cant/don't read long posts as my mind wanders.
  #715  
Old 15-12-2022, 10:34 AM
O K Viswanath
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redchic12

Viswanath

You state that some of the previous teachers such as Ramana told people to “find out who is it that wants such an experience rather than seeking any experience” and they kept on repeating it so people got bored. Perhaps if they had told people HOW to do it in a simple way, then they might have had better luck. I mean honestly do you think the average person out there could understand that statement. I don’t think so. Many wouldn’t have a clue what the h…….that was all about. And why keep on repeating something that has no affect.

I can understand what you are pointing here.

And so, Upanishads/Scriptures/Spirituality was kept at Silence, and only taught to one who is deserved. The qualifications are like Rama/Arjuna, to be full of sufferings of seeking material desires.
Only if one is sufferings of material desires and it's outcome, one can understand "Find out who you are".

So, until such qualification comes upon, what one to do? Devotion to God but not Spiritual Knowledge. Spiritual knowledge/any related practices (such as Dhyana yoga) is useless to those who seek material desires hand-in-hand with spiritual desires. If one is 'okay' with pleasures of materials, he is not deserved of Spiritual knowledge.

(Edit -
If one is not interested in Devotion to God too, but only material pleasures without sufferings, then he is free to do whatever he want but suffer. God gave free will. But, teaching him to make understand spirituality is foolish. It's like teaching Goodness to Satan.
)

Everything is said at it's fullest and simplest, because those are practices the Guru themselves undergone for Spiritual knowledge.

It has completed "test-drive" and fit for driving. Only the qualification of driver to buy Driving Licence matters to drive such vehicle. The machinery of vehicle is at it's simplest ("Who Am I? I am not body-mind - Iam SatChitAnanda", itself is enough if the student has deserved qualification)
  #716  
Old 15-12-2022, 11:56 AM
O K Viswanath
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redchic12
I’ve found most people have a short attention span and their mind wanders after a short time, so you have to be very clear, simple and short then they can actually get it.

See, If mind wonders, then let them wonder. Why try to grab away the free will from them? Let them wander and do anything as they wish for. Did God tried to teach Snake/Satan? Hadn't God let Satan Free to create his own world by sending below the ground?

If the student's mind wanders, then it's not that Teacher teaching in a worse/not-good manner. It's the problem of Student. The Student will come back again after wandering all over.

Also, why Force anything to anyone? Let people go and do whatever they want. If he is just a burden to the society, then if it's a nation of Christianity, Punish according to what is said in Bible. If it is a nation of Afghanistan, punish according to Shariah. If it is a Nation according to Vedic, Punish according to Manu Dharma.
But, never teach anything, as the Student can't understand any manner it is thought.

Just Keep on repeating "Obey God and Seek his feet". Keep on repeat it like a Pastor does. One day, he will understand what he did and come for "Forgiveness". One has to wait till that time, like God waits for us.

It's like Bhisma/Krishna advice to Duryodhana. Duryodhana is not in a position to change his nature. He won't at that time. Teaching Spiritual things is an utter failure, no way it's possible. They Just keep on repeating "What you are doing is Adharmic". One day, in this life or next, he will understand of Karmic returns.
  #717  
Old 15-12-2022, 12:41 PM
O K Viswanath
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redchic12
One person who has got this down to a fine art and is extremely successful with his message is Sadhguru. Iím not saying that his beliefs are correct, Iím only saying that the way he presents his beliefs are simple enough for everyone to understand and he keeps it brief.

So, you are saying that, just a temporary relief is fine by becoming a slave to some fake gurus instead of God?

He supplies Energies. They buy from it and obey his commands. It's like Siddhi powers. The Siddhi powers, can be used both for Peace and for War.

Say, if a problem comes to him like some other fake gurus in ashramas, then the temporary relief goes away/ends and the 'anger management courses' vanish.

He just be as a intermediary for transfer of Funds to Politicians, and use these followers for that. These are cannot be proved because the Officers here in Tamilnadu are corrupted and obeys the command of Prime Minister.

There are many local Activitists up against the things he does, but Money wins. If it is US, it would have been something different infront of Court/officers. Here, only corruption.
  #718  
Old 15-12-2022, 01:24 PM
O K Viswanath
Posts: n/a
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okKKM57ooag

Here is one of his reply, which is praised by his follower who uploaded this video, whereas he was only angry.

Also, in many of his video/speech, you can see the aversion to claps of supporting questioner/accuser. He first asks them by holding the hands, "May you please stop clapping?". It's because, it will provoke his anger.

As he has power, he just creates a situation where he can maintain his anger. He is not really at a situation, where nothing can provoke his anger.

Here, in the following video, at 0.30 to 0.55 minutes, you can see the aversion for claps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=533RmdaO-iI

Here, in this video, you can see how he shows his anger by threatening her that he can file a case against her where she can't come out until 20 years. You can see his voice tone raging but not laughing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CzBQlMvyH8

See, the ways he tackles the Accuses is,

1. When he is accused by common man, he says, "Government accepts it. We follow the Law. Let the Government take care of it. Etc.".

2. When atleast some powerful opposition parties question him, he says, "Just see what kind of person he is, where the accuse comes from, you can see their motive".

He got the answers everytime that just returns the arrow towards them, and escapes by a "Egoistic Laugh".

He can't Escape from God or Karma. Poor followers seeking Anger management with energies which can become negative too if there is a single spark.

If you know someone who is at his best in "Inner Engineering", Go and speak some accuses about *Deleted* - You can see the anger arising. This is one of technique Psychologists use to find out what is submerged inside.

Last edited by O K Viswanath : 15-12-2022 at 02:07 PM.
  #719  
Old 15-12-2022, 02:35 PM
Redchic12 Redchic12 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,336
 
Oh my goodness Viswanath, you really are worked up about Sadhguru arenít you. Such vitriol has shocked me.

I donít feel the need to express my thoughts about him or my beliefs either because I can see that it would be totally futile.

I will only say that I was NOT talking about his personality or about his beliefs or what he does with his life or his politics. It doesnít interest me one bit.

I WAS TALKING ABOUT HIS PRESENTATIONS. And nothing else.

I still stick by what I said.
  #720  
Old 15-12-2022, 02:45 PM
O K Viswanath
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redchic12
.
I WAS TALKING ABOUT HIS PRESENTATIONS. And nothing else.

I still stick by what I said.

Everyone has a weak point in anger, until all desires and attachments are cut off. There is no level of management, it is just converting upon something else for a while, which will turn back against them after a while.

I hope Sadhguru soon become aware of what he does, and be free from sufferings yet to be faced.

So, what kind of presentations you are pointing out?

Laugh out loud and insult others with words? It's not love upon the questioner/accuser. I prefer Swami Sarvapriyananda than him in this case, Swami is much loving and caring even to some Hindu conditioned people who accuses and force him to stop speaking Buddhism.
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