Evidence that the Universe is Intelligent

Originally Posted by Xan

Sentient just means conscious of existence. Thinking is another matter.

Xan

However intelligence doesn't necessarily require thought as WE know it.
At least from my perception.


Anyway.... it's unlikely our answers will be graded after class.
Philosophy debates are futile exercises in logic, and semantics...I should know better than to jump into one.

Originally Posted by Henri77

Philosophy debates are futile exercises in logic, and semantics...I should know better than to jump into one.

Now that's not true Listening to others' interpretations of their experience of Truth will hopefully lead oneself to also experience Truth.

Like any kind of debate, it's pointless only if you see the goal as convincing anyone of anything.

Originally Posted by Xan

romistrub... Who is telling the story, and who is listening to and believing it?

Who is "who"?

[Riboflavin]

Winston, your definitely on to something. Don't worry about the naysayers. Intelligence, purpose and design can definitely exist independently if anything human, including human recognition of it as such.

Saying that we are the only ones that are intelligent and can think is to me much the same as saying the earth the center of the universe. Its just a tad on the conceited side. IMO

[Xan]

Originally Posted by romistrub

Who is "who"?

Ah well... you missed an opportunity.


Xan

Originally Posted by Xan

Ah well... you missed an opportunity.

(shrug)

[adamkade]

Originally Posted by Riboflavin

Winston, your definitely on to something. Don't worry about the naysayers. Intelligence, purpose and design can definitely exist independently if anything human, including human recognition of it as such.

Saying that we are the only ones that are intelligent and can think is to me much the same as saying the earth the center of the universe. Its just a tad on the conceited side. IMO

Agreed. If humanity was created in a test tube by an alien race that would be a shocker. I can just imagine all those people's faces when they thought that we were the one and only children of God. Opps, oh yea, there's a whole universe out there filled with intelligient life. Just a thought.

[adamkade]

Originally Posted by Winston

Exactly,

Here is another thought.

Chrysaetos you said you believe you are a part of the universe, but what is a part? What is the difference between being a part of the universe and just being the universe? The conceptual thinking mind, the differentiating mind that likes to chop the universe up into decipherable bits and measurements and says this is different from that.

What is a thing? A thing is a noun. There are no things in and of themselves anywhere to be found in the universe. I don't exist apart from the universe and neither does the universe exist apart from me.

I believe I am a part of the universe and I am the universe and I am me, individually. I think God is me, and God isn't me, because when I think I am a segmented away from God, then I am, and when I don't then I am not. What I think I become, if I wished to be part of you then I would be. Then when I recognise that I am you are you are me, then we become one and the same. Until I decide differently, or until you do. Which we already have because we are apart. We are experiencing the reality that we experiencing because the greater part of ourselves has created this reality in order to experience seperatness, and bad spelling.

Originally Posted by Winston

Science as a whole does not have an opinion, sure, but science is comprised of scientists who generally make the assumption that the universe is unintelligent, that it is a mechanism set into motion by blind forces, etc. These are not scientific assumptions, they are actually ideas that come from the Judeo-Christian model of the universe (namely that the universe is an artifact that was made) except that they got rid of God playing a role in it. We kept the creation model just got rid of the creator. But there are other ways of conceptualizing the universe, and the science we choose to do can change dramatically based on which view we take. The problem is that science is biased and will only accept one specific model of the universe, and rejects the possibility of the others.

I don't know what you mean by "other models of the universe". You would need to be more specific. This kind of sounds like new-age dogma - beliefs about science that may be incorrect. I don't want to put words in your mouth though. But I can't expect "science" to just read a Jane Roberts book and suddenly update all theories.
What would you suggest science do? Adopt some sort of deism?

Originally Posted by Winston

Yes, actually I stated that in my original post. I wouldn't say I've necessarily PROVEN anything. I am trying to say that if you look at the universe and say that it is blind, it is stupid, it is indifferent to us, it does not care, then you are likely to feel alienated, to feel that you are a stranger in this world, alone, and the choices you make in life will be affected by that viewpoint (such as exploitation of natural resources, murder, etc.).

Whereas, if you take the viewpoint that you ARE the universe, that you are not a stranger here, and that I am as much you as you are, then you feel a very different way about the world. You feel that there is ultimately nothing to fear, because anything you encounter is just you in another form, and you belong here. You don't feel alone. That's the difference.

Yes I know that's a common spiritual view, the interconnectedness of all things. That's something different than the intelligence thing. I mean, I wasn't thinking that's what you were talking about.