Non duality vs duality

[no1wakesup]

Originally Posted by psychoslice

Both are the same, its only in our mind that we separate that which IS, and hence, Non duality vs duality.

Beautiful.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

When there is no thought, where is duality?

When there is no thought, where is non duality?

x daz x

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

Thank you Greenslade. I'm always seeking greater clarity of mind, or as some would say, faith seeking understanding.

Thank you, and good luck out there

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Yeah I agree. Greenslade, you have a nice clarity. I appreciate it aswell. Thanks for sharing.

You're very welcome

Originally Posted by eputkonen

When there is no thought, where is duality?

When there is no thought, where is non-duality? Non-duality IS duality.

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

Greenslade,

The idea of duality or non duality only exists in the minds conditioning. No different than the conditioning of linear time as it become the measurement of perceived space between me and other. There is no "experiencer" beyond any conceptual relationship. It is the selfless state so no one is there for any of this to belong too.

Perception is reality and while I'd agree that duality exists in the mind's 'conditioning' - I don't like that word very much because it's so misunderstood - there's something far more fundamental going on. And no, there is no 'experiencer' on the most fundamental of levels but again that's not the whole story.

So while we can discuss and understand all of that here we are, and if we sit here long enough we both know we're going to get blisters on our backsides. And while the selfless state means that there is no one there you still have a sense of your own being just the same, that you are 'here' to you and 'there' to me.

Without the experiencer and the experience there isn't very much, and this is where the ideologies fall over. There is no beyond any conceptual relationship if there is not any conceptual relationship.

Originally Posted by no1wakesup

"The identity was the prime mover, the motivator"

That never happened. That identity is part of the me and my story. That's something the mind needs to assume or believe in so that the "spiritual path" maintains the traveler in place to reach a destination it calls enlightenment.

If you have a sense of I am you have an identity, it's that simple, and if you can function enough to have written that post you have an identity. The only question is what you identify with and that depends not on 'you' but an aspect of 'you' that you have very little control over, yet it creates your reality and presents it to you on a silver platter.

[no1wakesup]

Greenslade,


"And while the selfless state means that there is no one there you still have a sense of your own being just the same, that you are 'here' to you and 'there' to*"

No, that is awareness (which still has a sense of its own being) ...without the content of conditioning. Awareness is still dual which is why enlightenment is not the outcome when a seeker goes in to the gap, the now or is momentarily present. Its simply more arsenal for the mind to add to the story once the thinking process is back online. Afterall, it was just a hiccup ( the gap)

The selfless state is not doing or being anything. How can it? There is no duality providing a space for separation therefore no measurement to sense time. However, I do understand why the mind must interpret it that way. Where you are is respected.

"Without the experiencer and the experience there isn't very much, and this is where the ideologies fall over. There is no beyond any conceptual relationship if there is not any conceptual relationship"

Of course, because its conceptual.
Consciousness simply IS. Consciousness contracted is awareness. Awareness conditioned is mind.

"If you have a sense of I am you have an identity, it's that simple, and if you can function enough to have written that post you have an identity. The only question is what you identify with and that depends not on 'you' but an aspect of 'you' that you have very little control over, yet it creates your reality and presents it to you on a silver platter."

At best, the "I am" is fundamental awareness. There is no "I" in "I am"...that's consciousness. The oversight here, collectively speaking, is gargantuan. Awareness is not identity. Awareness localized, as separate persona with a title is identity. Your identity is a mirror made up of the multitude of experiences that you have identified with over time.