Why aren't things improving?

[jimrich]

IMO, this post is both significant and beneficial for all that might read it.

Originally Posted by Blue Tiger

Take an honest look at your children, and ask yourself how they are being affected by the situation.

I seriously doubt that either of our parents ever considered how their behavior was affecting their kids (I wet the bed for about 5 straight years!). Our mom finally began to stand up to dad when something bothered her but never when something bothered her children!

Are the stress, anger, and resentment harming their sense of security and stability? Kids are not blind to such things, and can be emotionally harmed and confused by being kept in that state.

Good question! I wonder how many parents ever ask it? Or even CARE?

Don't assess this through the eyes of a loving parent. Try to step back and see your children as a concerned third party might - like a caring teacher or aunt.

LOL, our aunts and many others in our family could see how much us kids were being damaged by our very sick parents but didn't have the nerve to say or do anything! Some teachers came out to our house to confront our abusive dad about the purple belt marks all over my brothers' back (in gym class) so dad stopped using his belt and switched over to verbal abuse!

Divorce is no picnic, but it needn't be traumatic and devastating. Sometimes it is the BEST route.

I firmly agree!

Counseling is a great suggestion, if your husband is willing. From what you've written, I rather doubt he'll be amenable to it.

Abusive controllers never are!

Ultimately, do what is best for you and your children. Your husband is an adult and is responsible for his own happiness.

I'd say, "do whatever is best FOR YOUR KIDS" and then add whoever or whatever comes next.
Your post is right on the money, IMO so thanks for writing it!
yours,
jim

[002 Cents]

Jim - while your experience sounds extremely traumatizing you must realize that it is only one relationship model for family dynamics out of millions.

None of that describes my home or my situation and using my thread is an opportunity to vent... Well... I hope it made you feel better because it wasn't particularly useful. Maybe you should start your own thread ?

There is no violence in my home or alcoholism. There are **** people in my family line who conduct themselves questionably and I have dedicated my life to keeping them away from my children because I do consider the things that will influence how they will develop.

My exhysband is an abusive, narsisitic, alcoholic and a **** example of how a father should be for our son. So, when I chose my current husband I considered the kind of man I wanted my son to grow up to emulate.

My husband isn't perfect but none of us are. He is still a good, kind hearted, caring, compassionate man, who works his *** off to make my dreams realized. He never asked to be moved away from his country and all he knew to be providing for a single mother and her kid. He did that for me. And he hates it here but he still never pushes the issue and just hopes that I will keep up my end of the deal as I promised by allowing us all to move back to his country in a few years when my son is ready for college.

I was talking to my son yesterday asking him how he planned to learn of morality without knowing God and he said he learns from my husband. I said, you realize he isn't perfect right and he said I know but nobody's perfect . He is a good person though, he always has been.

My sons life is great because I left his father and brought in the kind of man he deserved to have as a parent into his life. Not all marital issues need to end in divorce. Not all marital issues have to damage the whole household.


And just because someone makes mistakes doesn't make them worthless and harmful.

You sound like you've made your fare share.

[cloud9]

I have parents who are still married although they make each other miserable with constant arguments. When I was younger, all I wanted was peace but there was never peace at my home. Actually, I hoped my parents would get a divorce so there would finally be peace or no more arguments every day. It puts you in a bad mood. When you think about your kids, divorce may be more beneficial to them. I don't know how the environment is in your household or if there is constant tension in the air.

If my husband often made me feel unloved, I would want to get out of the relationship so I could feel loved...even if it meant loving myself instead of relying on someone else to love me.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by cloud9

If my husband often made me feel unloved, I would want to get out of the relationship so I could feel loved...even if it meant loving myself instead of relying on someone else to love me.

That's why I left my 1st wife and, fortunately, there were no kids for us to damage.
I solute you!
:) jim

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by 002 Cents

My husband isn't perfect but none of us are. He is still a good, kind hearted, caring, compassionate man, who works his *** off to make my dreams realized.

Is this the guy:

I have posted a number of times on here about my marriage and the tail spin it has been in since last Sept.

I considered divorcing him a number of times

Trying to recover from the big issues that afflicted out marriage has been a struggle.
made my husband incredibly jealous

he gets all [Edited by staff/swearing not permitted] and starts telling me I don't love him

he was [messed up]

I woke up to him sulking and acting like it signifies a problem in our marriage.

I am at a loss

the girl he cheated on me with

he is looking for problems with our marriage

knowing he will see her

he may be struggling internally with feelings he still has for her

finding problems with us

when I start feeling better about our marriage, he starts having issues.

he was sleeping on the couch

There has been a lot of tension

how manipulative he can be

he uses every tool in his arsenel to try to get it

his tactics don't involve angry out burts they involve intellect and usually a well orchistrated sales pitch layden with well placed emotions to amlpify their effect...

he was home talking to that woman again

I was destroyed

he is very good at "seeming" genuine. But actions speak louder than words.
He is the clean cut, mild mannered, well educated, straight edged, gentleman with a successful family background, he is a scientist by profession and quite good at what he does... unfortunately... he can sell anyone on him being a freakin saint. Despite all the hell he has put me through

sometimes I wonder if he isn't just incredibly good at duping people

I am not qualified to understand whatever personality type it is I am dealing with here

He put you through HELL??? Where's the "loving, kind hearted man" that you speak of???

I was talking to my son yesterday asking him how he planned to learn of morality without knowing God and he said he learns from my husband. I said, you realize he isn't perfect right and he said I know but nobody's perfect . He is a good person though, he always has been.

Surely this can't be the same man who "dupes" everyone! Of course nobody is "perfect" but how about just being OK and not duping everyone or putting them through HELL??? How is this guy going to teach anyone about "morality" other than to demonstrate what IMMORALITY IS? I guess one can learn how to be good by seeing what bad is!

Not all marital issues have to damage the whole household.

Yet SOME do!

And just because someone makes mistakes doesn't make them worthless and harmful.

It should make them honest and accountable, at least.

You sound like you've made your fare share.

Yes, I too have DUPED a few folks!

[AHIYAH]

Originally Posted by jimrich

Sorry but I just have to respond to this thing about the "Elders".
In the case of my family, our parents "sticking together" only increased the pain, hatred and violence that us kids had to endure. If they had "split" years before, I am pretty sure all of us 3 kids would have fared much better than we ultimately did. Having two very dysfunctional parents is way worse than having just one, IMO and experience.

IMO, our parents waited way to long to finally get a divorce which our monster dad obtained in Reno since mom didn't have the guts to do it! What good is "the family unit" if its a sick and dangerous SNAKE PIT???


In our case, the "wider family" was just too terrified of our violent dad to say a word while watching our family gradually disintegrate! They were all COWARDS!


In our family the "elders" were the problem! It was the elders who conditioned and programmed our dad to be such a menacing, dangerous and violent alcoholic, like his dad, and our mother to be such a spineless, pathetic COWARD. Everything about them was started with and by the "elders" and listening to the elders just made matter worse for everyone involved. The alcoholic, dysfunctional, ignorant elders on both sides were the source of all the ugliness in my family!


IMO, the elders, in this and nearly every other culture are the FOUNTAIN HEAD of all the dysfunctional, ugly, hateful, violent and ROTTEN beliefs and behaviors that show up as: rape, murder, arson, incest, crime, war, terrorism, racist hatred, violence of every kind and literally all bad, mean and negative behaviors. It all begins with bad/inadequate and sick parenting which goes right back to the "elders". Trace any negative action or belief and you will end up at some elder's door step! All of my dad's lousy behavior began with his alcoholic parents and then all of my brothers and I's rotten behaviors began with our own parents!


People are naturally empowered by nature UNTIL their parents ruin all of that by age 3-6. If left un-socialized, by sick adults, I am certain that most kids would come out mentally and emotionally much healthier than they do now. IMO, it's all about parenting and the better, the better.

I would say that we(Maori) had a very good system concerning Whanau/Family, Whanaunga/wider family, Hapu/subtribe within a system of Tapu and Noa. Now that that system was taken away by an invasive system we are dealing with it from a different angle. Do you think Good can come from bad? Ofc it can my situation confirms it where yours doesnt. So I will carry on with what I know.

[002 Cents]

Originally Posted by jimrich

Is this the guy:

He put you through HELL??? Where's the "loving, kind hearted man" that you speak of???


Surely this can't be the same man who "dupes" everyone! Of course nobody is "perfect" but how about just being OK and not duping everyone or putting them through HELL??? How is this guy going to teach anyone about "morality" other than to demonstrate what IMMORALITY IS? I guess one can learn how to be good by seeing what bad is!

Yet SOME do!

It should make them honest and accountable, at least.


Yes, I too have DUPED a few folks!

Ironic how you say my husband should hold himself accountable when you blame all your short comings on everyone else...

Pretty hypocritical...

[Lynn]

Hello

What you have to ask yourself is what is best for you in all of this. Can you move past the cheating and trust in that it was a one time thing or can you live with maybe it happening again and again. Or happening with the same person again ? What effect will that have not only on you but how kids see relationships ?

Its all fine and good to have man that is a provider but too he has to have a moral standing for not only himself but for you and can children as well. There has to be a balance even if there is not LOVe.

I feel that how we learn best is to at times hear the stories (vents) as you so put it from others so that maybe we see that our path too is not the best and that we need to make changes in it.

My story is well shared on SF and in me being open and honest in my sharings I have helped both men and woman break free and find a path that fits them and at times their children. To learn that 'you' come first and foremost in that place of being and getting respects.

I feel that mine was unfaithful to me, but too I was blessed that I cut all the sexual ties to hm before it happened. I might well have spared me a disease that could well come with an affair. Trust me I got tested and re tested just in case.....something deeper one's do have to look at with affairs of the heart.

What imprint goes on a child where there is not LOVe and trust in a relationship, what do they learn and maybe repeat in the future relationships they will have. I worry on that a bit with mine, having had abuse and booze as foundation....yet I feel I got out in time to show them a better path.

Many times we fear the unknown in leaving of that fall from the lifestyle we have, and that keeps us locked in place. I fell financially but I raised myself up morally in how strong and happy I have become.

The funny thing is he accused me of the affair but I never dipped into that place until I was well free from out commitment.

I hope you can find peace with this as it might not look like it has an effect on kids but it does. Too it has and is having an effect on you or you would not be sharing with us here.

I value what others have to say as we learn a bit more about yourself I feel. Abuse comes in many forms and to me an affair too is abuse as they expect to just roll back on top of you and get more.....is that right ?

Lynn

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by 002 Cents

Ironic how you say my husband should hold himself accountable when you blame all your short comings on everyone else...

Pretty hypocritical...

LOL, don't kill the messenger!

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Hello

What you have to ask yourself is what is best for you in all of this.

IMO and experience, the primary question for a parent is = what is best for my child/children and then go to the next, most logical/significant question after that.
I believe that our parents failed, most of the time to consider what was best for their kids even though my mom INSISTED that she and dad "sacrificed" a lot for us 3 kids. Now that I am old enough to see the truth, it is absolutely obvious to me that they very rarely ever looked for what was "best" for their kids and, even then, the "best" they came up with was NOT THE BEST! He was a "high functioning alcoholic" and she was a cringing coward so their "best" was extremely tainted by their selfish, self-serving needs and behaviors - which produced disastrous consequences years later.

Can you move past the cheating and trust in that it was a one time thing or can you live with maybe it happening again and again. Or happening with the same person again ? What effect will that have not only on you but how kids see relationships ?

Just my opinion but I seriously doubt that any "cheater" or the (forgiving) victim of cheating ever gives a 2nd thought to how cheating is going to affect their kids!

Its all fine and good to have man that is a provider but too he has to have a moral standing for not only himself but for you and can children as well. There has to be a balance even if there is not LOVe.

By "balance", I assume you mean common sense based on high morality even if there is no "love" (whatever the means) in the relationship but cheaters have no common sense or significant morality which the OP has demonstrated several times in her posts. One moment her man is "kind hearted and loving" and the next moment is has "put her through hell, "dupes" everyone and "CHEATS" on her!

I feel that how we learn best is to at times hear the stories (vents) as you so put it from others so that maybe we see that our path too is not the best and that we need to make changes in it.

A reasonable person, who truly wants some help would see these "vents" as an opportunity to LEARN something and not jump to a hysterical defense if someone suggests the OP might need to do what is best for her kids.

My story is well shared on SF and in me being open and honest in my sharings I have helped both men and woman break free and find a path that fits them and at times their children. To learn that 'you' come first and foremost in that place of being and getting respects.

IMO, all sharing can have some benefit - unless someone sees it as a threat or insult - which some sharing can certainly be. That's just the risk a person takes in open forums such as this.

I feel that mine was unfaithful to me, but too I was blessed that I cut all the sexual ties to hm before it happened. I might well have spared me a disease that could well come with an affair. Trust me I got tested and re tested just in case.....something deeper one's do have to look at with affairs of the heart.

LOL, very smart of you to get "tested" after he cheated and I hope you took the kids and LEFT THAT LOUSE!

What imprint goes on a child where there is not LOVe and trust in a relationship, what do they learn and maybe repeat in the future relationships they will have.

All I can say is - it won't be a good one! They may repeat the programming they get or go the other way. Who knows what such crumby parenting will do to someone?

I worry on that a bit with mine, having had abuse and booze as foundation....yet I feel I got out in time to show them a better path.

Good for you (and them)!

Many times we fear the unknown in leaving of that fall from the lifestyle we have, and that keeps us locked in place. I fell financially but I raised myself up morally in how strong and happy I have become.

When dad left us, mom had a bit of a struggle but got a lot of help and support from her church plus, us kids went to work and it all worked out real good WITHOUT the financial help of our sick dad!

The funny thing is he accused me of the affair but I never dipped into that place until I was well free from out commitment.

Abusive Controllers always try to turn it around to make their victims look bad and wrong. It's the classic psychological trick of "deflecting". Our alcoholic dad tried to tell his family how bad and unappreciative all of us were but they could see that he, not us, was the bad one!

I hope you can find peace with this as it might not look like it has an effect on kids but it does. Too it has and is having an effect on you or you would not be sharing with us here.

I hope so too - for the sake of the kids!