Nothingness Behind the Screen

[Joe Mc]

I was thinking about Non Duality this morning That in itself might be a bit of a joke, or trying to think about it and what it is seekers are trying to discover
and how they are trying to discover that.

I thought of how when we were toddlers and small children we tried to find the people on the TV Screen by looking behind the TV set. I remember distinctly thinking
if I move fast enough then I will discover those folks on the TV Screen behind the Television, perhaps I would of said hello !

But it never happens does it, you can't discover them no matter how fast you move because the whole supposition of why and how they are there is from a child's perspective.
The illusion that there is somebody there is similar to the seekers illusion that they may be able to fit reality into their own perspectives. Or maybe able to use
a type of reasoning or logic that brings truth.

I somehow think this analogy gives me an insight into how myself and others have often tried to peek behind the Screen in our search for answers.
And there is nobody there, you are left with just an activity, with life itself. You are left with just the Science, The Love, the loss, the tragedy, the greed, the goodness,
all these things you are left with but you can never find those people behind that screen. Why ? Because they are not there and were never there to begin with

Sorry if this analogy appears slightly simplistic even unhelpful lol. I would like to reflect on it though. Anyone care to comment, refute or even rubbish this analogy feel free.
Do you think it can relate to non duality ? Do we look in the wrong places for answers on our search ?

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[Unseeking Seeker]

Obviously nonduality cannot be intellectualised, only directly realised, recognised; hence need to let go of lower mind and abide in thought rested stillness. We are so identified with thought and hemmed in by senses that we cannot imagine awareness self-aware sans thought.

This said, the universe has provided us with clues, that when we wish to awake from hypnotic stupor, we may see without mirrors, metaphorically speaking.

Meditation offers insights, deep insights wherein in an expanded state of consciousness we know that we are not in the universe but rather, the universe is in us. Then as God’s breath, we see how His breath keeps alive all forms. These are then not ideas or concepts but direct knowing.

Likewise, if we take the kundalini activation process, at a certain stage we ‘see’ Hirayangarbha or cosmic egg as one, which then splits becoming two ~ Shiva and Shakti or we may say, male and female polarities. They then descend via Amrit nadi (a conduit) to the heart, where union* (*entwinement) leads to an explosion of bliss in permanence. So a singularity within duality but the appreciation of this must be experienced, it cannot be intellectualised.

Samadhi is a non dual singularity where we become the bliss flame, as one without a second, in time and space vaporised oneness. Again, this cannot be described in words to the one who has not experienced.

Then again, what or who is God? And who are we in the game plan? This too becomes clear in timeless time, by grace of course.

Thus all analysis is paralysis. We need to be to become.

[Joe Mc]

@Unseeking Seeker, very nice post with plenty to contemplate. "We were never there to begin with ", I'm quoting myself here, the figures on the cinema screen are illusionistic,
the ideas we hold about them are phantomistic and tie us to the pantomine of life in a way which is Samsaric. I've taken myself far too seriously at the best of times in this life
and yet even after the roles I play and we all play ...there is real goodness appearing, like a single orchid, appearing alone and out of season to show that we must love this mystery
even if we cannot fully understand it with our reasoning and intellect. We can love it. Thank you. Joe.

A couple of lines from WB Yeats to help us to embrace the illusion by seeing past it and synergise.

O chestnut tree, great rooted blossomer,
Are you the leaf, the blossom or the bole?
O body swayed to music, O brightening glance,
How can we know the dancer from the dance?

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[Miss Hepburn]

Many insights into the Shapeshifter can come looking at a lava lamp.
The inside becomes the outside, then back again ...
and breaks off into many pieces...then comes together again at the top and disappears, to emerge
at the bottom to 'dance', yet, a different dance all over again!

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Many insights into the Shapeshifter can come looking at a lava lamp.The inside becomes the outside, then back again ...
at the bottom to 'dance', yet, a different dance all over again!

Yes the lava lamp is a lovely image as well, suggesting as it does continual change, fluidity and a break in 'normal' space and time. Thanks for sharing.


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[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

I was thinking about Non Duality this morning That in itself might be a bit of a joke,

A joke in the sense that if non-duality has not been realised, then there is no real self to think about anything. It's not a nice joke to me, especially if im in pain and I cannot even find a self to do something about it.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

or trying to think about it and what it is seekers are trying to discover
and how they are trying to discover that.

It's just freedom from pain/suffering for me. How, is, like those wind up toys. Pain winds the "me" up and it goes on a search even when the pain is gone. IF the search ends or is forgotten or exhausted, pain comes again to cause the search for nonduality.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

I thought of how when we were toddlers and small children we tried to find the people on the TV Screen by looking behind the TV set. I remember distinctly thinking
if I move fast enough then I will discover those folks on the TV Screen behind the Television, perhaps I would of said hello !

New borns maybe come from non-duality into duality. I wish I didn't.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

But it never happens does it, you can't discover them no matter how fast you move because the whole supposition of why and how they are there is from a child's perspective.

Unconditional love of the soul always embraces duality as something good. Untill the complete opposite appears.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

The illusion that there is somebody there is similar to the seekers illusion that they may be able to fit reality into their own perspectives. Or maybe able to use
a type of reasoning or logic that brings truth.

Easy for me to say, when I'm not in pain. But when the pain is there, I know I have to search anyway, even tho it is impossible to find anything, because I'm not talking about a pain that has a limit, in the sense of "oh at this point, it surely can't get worse." Duality is energetically infinite and eternal. There is no other option but finding nonduality. If it cannot be found, suffering will continue to exist forever.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

I somehow think this analogy gives me an insight into how myself and others have often tried to peek behind the Screen in our search for answers.
And there is nobody there, you are left with just an activity, with life itself.

True and I find it cruel. That's just my experience.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

You are left with just the Science, The Love, the loss, the tragedy, the greed, the goodness,
all these things you are left with but you can never find those people behind that screen. Why ? Because they are not there and were never there to begin with

If I am responsible for my pain, then why can I not change it? I cannot even find a true real consistent identity/self/thing to change it. If there is no non-duality, every truth is simultaneously a lie. What am I gonna do to change anything? This is so powerless that there is not even the power to complain about anything. Because there is no self to complain. If I'm in pain, not even I can help myself. Because the self cannot even be found by the self. Torment.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Sorry if this analogy appears slightly simplistic even unhelpful lol. I would like to reflect on it though. Anyone care to comment, refute or even rubbish this analogy feel free.
Do you think it can relate to non duality ? Do we look in the wrong places for answers on our search ?

I WISH SO MUCH that it can relate to non-duality. That would mean that we can find it.
And you are way righter in the sense that you don't falsely claim non-duality.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

[color="Black"] Obviously nonduality cannot be intellectualised, only directly realised, recognised; hence need to let go of lower mind and abide in thought rested stillness.

Endless methods to reach enlightenment. Because no one enjoy enheavyment.
But I prefer non-duality.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

We are so identified with thought and hemmed in by senses that we cannot imagine awareness self-aware sans thought.

It's true. I'm so done with duality. There has to be a way to realise non-duality without awareness. Or maybe, BECOME it. permanently.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

This said, the universe has provided us with clues, that when we wish to awake from hypnotic stupor, we may see without mirrors, metaphorically speaking.

I find myself always completely lost when it comes to that.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Meditation offers insights, deep insights wherein in an expanded state of consciousness we know that we are not in the universe but rather, the universe is in us. Then as God’s breath, we see how His breath keeps alive all forms. These are then not ideas or concepts but direct knowing.

True, it keeps becoming more and more difficult to maintain that enlightenment. And the suffering that follows it, also keeps becoming worse. That's why I am looking for non-duality.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Likewise, if we take the kundalini activation process, at a certain stage we ‘see’ Hirayangarbha or cosmic egg as one, which then splits becoming two ~ Shiva and Shakti or we may say, male and female polarities. They then descend via Amrit nadi (a conduit) to the heart, where union* (*entwinement) leads to an explosion of bliss in permanence. So a singularity within duality but the appreciation of this must be experienced, it cannot be intellectualised.

It's just good. We all know it is there. There are endless versions of it. Infinite. We know that we want to experience it forever. But there is no such thing as a goodness, that is forever, that is also experienced forever. Otherwise we would be experiencing it right now.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Samadhi is a non dual singularity where we become the bliss flame, as one without a second, in time and space vaporised oneness. Again, this cannot be described in words to the one who has not experienced.

I have experienced it, but the fact that it is beyond time and space will not save the one, that will become you, which ends up in a time and space where there is suffering again. You can become God Almighty and it will still not be salvation from duality. It will just be a temporary experience.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Then again, what or who is God? And who are we in the game plan? This too becomes clear in timeless time, by grace of course.

That grace leads to suffering also. But ofcourse if I ask the grace of God, why I am suffering, there is no answer. Because appearantly I do not even exist. So how can I even ask something? Without non-duality, there is no point to try anything. Not for me atleast. Not that I can help it, I have to try and find non-duality. The alternative is a suffering that never ends.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Thus all analysis is paralysis. We need to be to become

Exactly. We do exist. But we cannot find existence. Or realise it. I mean, I cant... I hope someone can. But meanwhile , I am considering if I can somehow permanently become a being that is without becoming. But I know, that would just create another duality. It's like taking an infinite dollar bet. Very dangerous. Especially if you're going to end up in infinite dollar debt. And that being without becoming is going to be a temporary being and then become again. That's like going from duality. To EXTRA DELUXE duality.
in the negative sense tho lol.
hhhh... I have to try and make fun of duality. Otherwise I and my pain will be the joke for my whole life.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

O chestnut tree, great rooted blossomer,
Are you the leaf, the blossom or the bole?
O body swayed to music, O brightening glance,
How can we know the dancer from the dance?

I don't even have the capacity to embrace the illusion.
What is funny is that yet my suffering it seems to have infinite capacity.
But it seems like you ment well. Thanks? I guess.
I guess I'm suppose to laugh about it?

Reminds me of that hell where people have to carry stones. And then someone gives them a present, and it appears to be a stone wrapped up in beautiful wrapping paper. lol

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Many insights ...
... all over again!

I eagerly watched a lava lamp on youtube. I for some reason expected peace. Some distraction from my pain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_lQ2tMgLVM


That thing describes my whole life.

I didn't expect that.

It finally gathered all pieces back into wholeness and then it became too heavy and it tore appart pieces, which sadly fell back down again. But only after it devised the most brilliant plan to gather all the pieces back up by sending some new ones down to help them gain momentum to fully merge back up with the rest. I wanted it so much to stay up after that brilliant rescue plan. When, after such a perfect rescue and completion into peaceful wholeness, it all stayed up in peace and wholeness, and then it became too heavy and some pieces tore off and fell back down again, I became so sad when that happened... So sad that it is as if my entire life is encapsulated in that bottle.

This lava lamp describes the eternal duality of up and down. It is like eternal torment in a bottle. That has no possible escape or end. The endless cycle.

My eternal fate in a bottle if I don't find something that is non-dual.

This makes me wonder if there are very intelligent people, or just tormented people who are very motivated by allot of fuel of despair.

Whoever made that bottle is pretty cruel. Torment on autopilot. But I don't blame them for making a statement of REALITY. This is simply how life is anyway, unless we change it. Unless someone finds a way to change it.

Which seems impossible. Even if we had all the energy of the universe to counter evil, it still woulden't make a tiny dent. The Source of Hell grows in power by infinite universes per fraction of a nanosecond.

That is the kind of cruel hurdle one has to face when attempting to realise nonduality. It makes even the fifa world cup look silly. They are literally creating more duality on purpose, rather than reaching for non-duality. It's sad that the whole world falls for it. I remember in movies the world always ended during a football match.

Why does football relate so much to the appocalypse? Makes no sense to me. Except, it begins with duality and ends with it I guess. It's just making room for a new cycle of duality anyway.

"I" wont exist, but "I" don't already exist anyway. It's like an infinite and eternal growing fractal. Keeps recurring the same thing in infinite different variations.

For some reason, fractals help me better to surrender to duality. There is atleast a tiny little hope for something new. or "different". Than endless new and different variations of duality. Maybe one duality can become non-dual forever. That eternal rest of nothingness.

And I can only eternally hope that it lasts forever. But eternity always ends up being too big for it to remain the same forever. There's always again a new reason to end up in suffering again. Sadly. I wish there was something good that is as consistent as suffering.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

A joke in the sense that if non-duality has not been realised, then there is no real self to think about anything. It's not a nice joke to me, especially if im in pain and I cannot even find a self to do something about it.

I was just remarking on the irony of trying to think about non duality. Nothing wrong with thinking about non duality however, it's striving after it that involves painful thinking because non duality may or may not fit into our thinking conditioning. Striving after it produces thinking which produces emotional dispositioning that feels like we are lacking and worthless because we can't find 'IT'.
We can't find it in the football, in Fifa, we can't even find it in cyclists dressed up as Olympians whom I personally don't like. Probably to do with my conditioning that I have never seen them carry a sack of potatoes on their lovely bikes or giving their granny a crossbar !!! And when they ride three abreast across the road ..well !!!! Sorry cyclists, I am exaggerating a bit here to illustrate a point, I can live with yis !!! lol.

Doesn't any of that mean I haven't or will not have in the future non dual experiences ? No. Firstly we need to look after ourselves, if we are suffering from emotional trauma we should try to deal with it, you will find when you arrive at the Non Duality terminus that you still have a self and if your non duality bus has left say 20 minutes ago then your wounded self won't be happy. Because non duality doesn't mean there is no self. I must get rid of myself, where the hell did that instruction ever come from ?

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